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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 16, 2002 10:29:53 GMT -5
"Half a minute" seems a bit of a stretch. Mindful of the multiple encounters going on simultaneously, and the recorded movement of several combatants, I am comfortable with reasserting a 2-3 minute time span for the action at the pond embankment, concluding with the deaths of the two Kickapoo attempting to escape by running across the pond.
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Dec 17, 2002 9:05:43 GMT -5
Bob... are you implying "Old Charge Em Boys" Dodge was exaggerating the account in his letter to Captain J. Sherman? If so we need to raise some other questions...
In overview of this thread are you saying the modern accounts are wrong and the accounts of people at the battle site are also in error? This is important because many scholars hold the position that this battle was a pivotal point in the BHW. If we can not believe Dodge and the volunteers that were with him. Who are we to believe?
At this juncture then would it not be fair and prudent to say their is no indisputable evidence to suggest an accurate time frame, start to finish, of this skirmish?
Larry K
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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 17, 2002 9:48:41 GMT -5
Larry, the initial point of the discussion opened with the assertion that the battle Pecatonica lasted a half an hour. There is not a shred of evidence that supports this claim.
However, there are several pieces of evidence that support the claim that the action at the pond embankment was "short, sharp, and decisive"---and Dodge's claim of "half a minute" is certainly plausable when describing JUST the action at the pond embankment once the hand-to-hand action was joined. I support this contention with noting that Dodge's casualty figure for the Kickapoo seems to confine itself only to those killed at the pond embankment. That action-- the melee--certainly appears to be Dodge's focus.
Based on modern simulations of Messersmith's actions, Dodge's assertion of the duration of time of the melee at the pond embankment (and JUST this segment of the fight) appears accurate.
The evidence provided by the surviving participants I think allows us to comfortably rule out any sort of claim to a half hour firefight. I think we can agree that the accounts allow us to easily assert that the fight, from start to finish, certainly took less than five minutes, and most likely took less time. I maintain that a two to three minute time-frame---from opening volley to last participant killed-- is reasonable for a practical assessment of the fight.
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