|
Post by Greg Carter on Sept 17, 2002 20:17:15 GMT -5
As far as militia and their uniforms, I have read more comments referring to a variety of clothing rather than singlular uniform items.
Now, on the other hand, the regulars were known for taking down the dress for the active campaign season. This applied during the War of 1812 as well as through the Sauk War. I have read one account where General Scott ordered the men to bring their summer uniforms and any gray pantaloons left over from the winter months. This reference points specifically to dressing down for activity, considering that the gray uniforms were obsolete as a dress uniform by 1832. The interpreter staff at Fort Snelling wear the white linen roundabouts for garrison duty. If their choice of that apparel is researched, it should lend provenance to dressing down, at least in the regular service. I am not aware of any fancy militia companies being raised out here until at least the Mexican-American War era, so I suspect that they probably just wore what was on hand. I suppose that perhaps men who normally wore coattails might have exchanged their "sunday best" for a hunting shirt if they had one, but that would seem to be about it.
GMC
|
|
Gene
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by Gene on Sept 18, 2002 10:32:20 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Big-C also. A lot of the available information seems to indicate that militia were anything but uniformed, with some minor exceptions. The only thing that seems to had made into their hands were weapons ,(though there is info to suggest that many weapons were brought from home) and some accounterments, as well as ammunition.
|
|
|
Post by Nick Hoffman on Sept 18, 2002 21:27:47 GMT -5
I too, in my little reading, have not seen anything to support that the Illinois Militia carried out the militia uniform laws. I wonder if some small items like the cockade might still have been worn, possbily without being mentioned in any journals/diaries/orderly books.
Bob, I really enjoyed your article on the old website on the hunting frock. I could not agree more on it's use in military history. Coming from 18th Century reenacting and my studies there, this is a very common item already in the 1750's. Would a hunting frock without a cape still be in use in the 1830's?
Thanks, Nick Hoffman
|
|
|
Post by Robert Braun on Sept 18, 2002 23:03:42 GMT -5
It is my opinion, supported by a contemporary woodcut of the Stillman's Run fight, plus written recollections, that the hunting frock, with cape, remained standard fare during the Sauk War.
I know there are a few who believe that the hunting frock is "over-represented" in the war. I am curious as to the evidence supporting this opinion.
r.
|
|
Gene
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by Gene on Sept 19, 2002 1:34:40 GMT -5
Then does the question need to be refined to read;
What would the average settler wear when engaged in some type of field activity, such as hunting? And how would this dress differ from what that settler (for lack of a better term) used in his daily life?
|
|
|
Post by Robert Braun on Sept 19, 2002 13:50:07 GMT -5
The everyday clothes described by several observers of Mineral District personna indicate that the average lead digger was from the poorer segments of Jacksonian American society. Clothing selected had to be right for the occupation and time of year, provide both comfort, wear, and utility, and be reasonably inexpensive to purchase or make.
Outerwear of working trades consisted of the shirt, waistcoat, pantaloons, and some protection for these garments... be it an apron, smock, or some sort of overshirt. An apron, overshirt, wamus, or other outer garment was part of the standard dress of everyday working American males.
This coupled with the long and treasured traditions of the hunting shirt/frock in recent American wars and its identity with the frontier made hunting frocks a natural choice.
The evidence supports some form of outerwear. Those choices are limited to tailcoats, jackets, or some form of smock, apron, wamus, or frock. The expense of exposing a tailored tail-coat or jacket to the rigors of the diggin's indicates a sturdier, cheaper garment be used instead. Indeed, the accounts support hide or 'Kentucky Jean" trousers and hide hunting frocks. Other sources indicate linen hunting frocks.
My research indicated that cheapness, utility, and fashion (assocation with marksmen and the frontier) made the hunting frock an icon that endured from the American Revolution to the opening salvos of the Civil War.
|
|
|
Post by Greg Carter on Sept 19, 2002 14:54:36 GMT -5
Bob,
you bring up some very true points. As to the school of thought that "hunting shirts are over-represented", I digress. I don't know about you, but at our last turn around LNS, I didn't count more than 6 or 7 out of the whole contingent, and only three or four of us had them at the last ARF event. We know of their frequency and place in American lore and military records, including some records of the Confederacy, so they seem a very logical choice for a "uniform" over most other suits of clothes.
GMC
|
|
|
Post by Robert Braun on Sept 20, 2002 11:28:29 GMT -5
Except for shoes. Because, as you know, people stopped wearing shoes, boots, or moccassins once the Treay of Paris was signed. In the Federal period and in the Jacksonian period, "they really don't know what kind of shoes they wore." That being said, Jack Larkin wrote that barefoot children was a common summer sight in rural America during this time.
|
|
|
Post by Greg Carter on Sept 20, 2002 20:39:23 GMT -5
That's very correct. Don't forget the other very important point we learned Wednesday, either. Once 1816 arrived, they stopped using the musket and re-adopted the use of foot archers to save money on musket balls.
One Boot Gym Sock
|
|
|
Post by Robert Braun on Dec 5, 2003 10:12:40 GMT -5
Is there ANY indication or evidence of the wear in the Illinois Militia of colored feather hackles in the round hat to denote officers (as represented in the CMH color plate)?
Is there ANY indication of evidence of the continuation of the practice, established at least as far back as the War of 1812, for the wear of blue hunting frocks with red trim for officers/non-commissioned officers (as respresented in the CMH print)?
The more I look at the Company of Military Historian's "Black Hawk War" print, the more I question whether it represents the idealism of Illinois Militia Law, instead of the actual realities of Illinois militia in the field in 1832.
Your comments are invited...
Bob.
|
|
Cliff Krainik
Member
MY HEROES HAVE ALWAYS LIFTED THE TOPKNOTS OF THE LONG KNIVES
Posts: 233
|
Post by Cliff Krainik on Dec 5, 2003 16:12:08 GMT -5
"Illinois Militia, Black Hawk War, 1832" On December 5, 2003 Bob Braun wrote - Is there ANY indication or evidence of the wear in the Illinois Militia of colored feather hackles in the round hat to denote officers (as represented in the CMH color plate)?
Is there ANY indication of evidence of the continuation of the practice, established at least as far back as the War of 1812, for the wear of blue hunting frocks with red trim for officers/non-commissioned officers (as represented in the CMH print)?
The more I look at the Company of Military Historian's "Black Hawk War" print, the more I question whether it represents the idealism of Illinois Militia Law, instead of the actual realities of Illinois militia in the field in 1832." -------------------------------- Here is the print in question with a detail of the "colored feather hackles in the round hat to denote officers." images.andale.com/f2/116/104/7566189/1070125606848_PRINTcmhBHillMILITIA.jpg [/img] images.andale.com/f2/116/104/7566189/1071682858482_PRINTcmhBHWillMILITIAdt.jpg [/img] Incidentally, the image entitled, "Illinois Militia, Black Hawk War, 1832" is a color print of the pen and ink drawing by H. Charles McBarron, Jr. from the series MILITARY UNIFORMS IN AMERICA, plate Number 277, published and copyrighted by the Company of Military Historians in 1966. Print size, approximately 14 by 11 inches. The subjects in the CMH print are identified as - from left to right - "Abraham Lincoln Captain of Infantry" - "Mounted Rifleman" - "Field Officer" - "Ordinary Militia" - "Musketman" A copy of this print is held in the Krainik Collection and was included in the exhibit THE LEGACY OF THE BLACK HAWK WAR , Mineral Point Historical Society, Summer 2002 Cliff Krainik
|
|
|
Post by Greg Carter on Dec 5, 2003 16:21:09 GMT -5
A little off-topic, but there are several things in this print that beg a bit of questioning...
1. The hackle in the officer's hat...
2. The leggings worn by the officer on foot...
3. The use of what looks like a "tump-line" by the rifleman in the foreground.
Any thoughts on these items? Thanks for posting the picture, Cliff. Also, commenting rather late on the hunting frock/shirt issue, there are several prints and sketches from the Texian War of Independence that indicate the use of the hunting shirt with 1-3 capes during that War. I don't have a specific reference on hand but I will post again later today. I can also think of at least one Civil War-era illustration from Harper's Weekly that shows the uniform of the "Kentucky Rifle Brigade", where a private is wearing a tight-fitting fringed hunting shirt with a fringed cape, fringed pantaloons and a kepi. There is a also a post-Civil War photograph of "Wild Bill" Hickock and another of "Buffalo Bill" Cody showing them in fringed hunting shirts of one kind or another.
Greg Carter
|
|
|
Post by Robert Braun on Dec 5, 2003 17:30:51 GMT -5
To address general statements, Mr. Carter provided earlier in this thread Section 11 of the Revised 1821 Illinois Militia Act which stated in part:
Clearly, when the print is compared to the 1821 act, we can see where Mr. McBarron's "artistic license" has been injected into the print. Unfortunately, like the geneticists portrayed in the movie "Jurrasic Park" Mr. McBarron has spliced frog DNA into the missing segments of the DNA strand know as "clothing and equipage of the Illinois militia."
Let's examine the 'frog DNA' found by Mr. Carter:
1. The hackle in the mounted officer's hat. First off, hackles were known and worn in the American military experience during the War of 1812. However, if we're going to get precise about abiding by a state law, the amended rules state a "plume." At the expense of being tarred as overly-picky, a "plume" or feather, is not a hackle.
2. The leggings worn by the officer on foot. The interpretation of the artwork is that of a wrap of cloth tied under the knee and at the ankle to provide protection from brush and thorns. During the Revolutionary War, these were known as 'country boots.' Whether or not this practice existed some 50 years after the American Revolution has yet to be substantiated (unlike the hunting shirt or frock, the wear of which can be clearly substantiated.)
3. The "tumpline." Again... a tumpline predates the American Revolution, and the question of its survivability as an item of utility past the Revolution is dubious at best. Clearly, the militia infantry would need SOME means by which to transport thier equipage, and an over the shoulder 'short roll' would have been a logical choice. HOWEVER, Mr. McBarron, the MAJORITY of Illinois volunteers were mounted!
I also question:
A. The gourd canteen carried by "ordinary militiaman"; B. The red sashes worn by the officers; C. The 'over the shoulder' sword belt with white metal oval plate worn by "Abraham Lincoln" (wait... I thought Lincon himself stated that he "had none"?) D. The red turban on the round hat of the "mounted rifleman" E. What are they using to carry their rations?
Regards, Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Greg Carter on Dec 5, 2003 17:57:53 GMT -5
Bob,
How can you worry about being over-picky? I should have noticed my grammatical error there.. plume, yes.. hackle.. no.
I said I would get back on later, well, I guess it has been an hour or so. I have been sitting in the local library all day and found the following references to an hunting shirt of one sort or another...
Following the Frontier with F. Jay Haynes Freeman Tilden New York: Alfred a Knopf 1964
P. 167 shows a photo taken of 4 men outside the home of Wild Bill Hickock in the 1870's- Two men are "dressed as Crows" in ornate fringed hunting shirts. Another man has on what appears to be a fringed sack coat of some sort.
The Wild West By the Editors of Time Life Books New York: Warner Books 1993
P. 267 shows a painting by Arther FItzwilliam Tait made in 1852. In the painting there are at least two men with fringed overshirts or hunting shirts. The most obvious is the man crouching in the grass in the foregound. P. 269 shows a photo of a guide named "Peaches"- wearing a fringed hunting shirt P. 338 shows a photo of "Wild Bill" Hickock wearing a hunting shirt P. 340 shows a picture of Ned Buntline in a fringed hunting shirt. Pages 341 & 345 show pictures of Buffalo Bill Cody in hunting shirts P. 347 shows a photo of Teddy Roosevelt in a fringed hunting shirt.
True Tales of the Old-Time Plains David Darry New York: Crown Publishers, Inc. 1979
P. 44 has an 1889 portait of Buffalo Bill Cody by Roas Bonheurs. He is wearing fringed trousers, moccassins and a fringed hunting shirt.
The WEST: An Illustrated History Geoffrey C. Ward Boston: Little, Brown & Co. 1996
In the pre-TOC photo pages there is a photo of a man in a hunting shirt.
P. 71 shows a painting of Davy Crockett by John Gadsby Chapman, showing him in a fringed hunting shirt closed with a belt, fringed trousers and mocassins. P. 180 has an 1859 photo of Jack Ford, wearing a hunting shirt with just a fringed collar.
The Ranchers Editors of Time Life Books Alexandria: Time-Life Books 1977
P. 172- painting of Teddy Roosevelt by Henry Sandham, 1885, shows TR in a fringed hunting shirt.
The Texan Army 1835-46 Stuart Reid & Richard Hook Oxford: Osprey Publishing, Ltd. 2003
P. 14 shows a period illustration [1842?] of Captain Ewen Cameron before his execution. Cameron appears to be wearing a hunting shirt of some kind fitted with shoulder scales. He also appears to be wearing tied-on leggings over his calves.
P. 23 shows a sketch of the attempted breakout of captive Texians from Saltillo, as made by a participant. The sketch shows at least 4 men who appear to be wearing hunting shirts and at least one with leggings.
P. 24 shows a sketch of the "black bean episode", made by a participant also. In the sketch 5 men have fringed hunting shirts. Of the 5, 3 have 2 capes, 2 have 1 cape.
While these last are from a book by Osprey, which often raises a red flag or two, this newest book on the Texian War has numerous contemporary illustrations and no photos of repop items.
G. Carter
|
|
|
Post by Greg Carter on Dec 5, 2003 18:06:13 GMT -5
Replying to Bob's "Frog DNA"-
I also notice the complete absence of wallets, knapsacks or haversacks for provisions. If the theory is that the print was derived from the published state laws, then all the men should have a knapsack.
I am afraid I don't know enough to comment on gourd canteens, but again, definitely a suspicious item in the print.
One other thing that stands out is the fact that nearly every man in the print is armed with an identical "Kentucky rifle", except the lone "musket man" who stands behind the mounted officer.
|
|