Last Battle of Black Hawk War

[Cliff Krainik]

Larry,

Thank you for the information. You did some great research and field work. I appreciate your efforts.

Cliff

[pshrake]

There were two companies of Menominee Indians that served under Stambaugh. One under George Johnston the other under Augustin Grignon. Here is the muster roll for Johnston's company. I will post Grignon's company when I have finished transcribing it. As always, any errors in the text are mine alone.

Pete


Capt. George Johnston

Menominee Indians under Col. Stambaugh Green Bay
20th July to 28th Aug 1832
Black Hawk War


Paid in full for the above time

*************************************

Roll if Capt George Johnston Co. Menominee Indians under command of Col. S. C. Stambaugh of Green Bay, from 20th July to 28th August 1832.

1. George Johnston Capt
2. Alexander J. Irwin 1st Lieut. & Commissary
3. Robert Grignon 2nd Lieut. & Interpreter

6 1st chiefs

1. Grizly Bear
2. A-Ca-Mot
3. Pe-wait-ton-etto
4. A-yem-e-tah
5. Wab-boose
6. Lou-le-je-nei

6 War Chiefs

1. Ribbon
2. Carron
3. The Brave Brother
4. Moskett
5. Ma-wa-cho-nau-pau-mau
6. Ke-sha-o-co-tee

Warriors
1. Wa-na-co
2. Sha-sha-co-tah
3. O-miche
4. Wap-pe-naine
5. Motapane
6. Kesick-na-a-quah
7. May-a-woo-sette
8. Babpt. McIbee
9. Tau-qua-ca-nee
10. The Ribbon Junior
11. Pau-en-che-kave
12. Wish-to-ah Junior
13. Che-co-pave-wa-shin
14. Le Ru Bon
15. Kau-che-co-cave
16. Wache-cho-na-pave
17. Sha-wan-no
18. Kah-ya-na-mac
19. Winons-o-co
20. Sha-sha-co-ta
21. A-paish-co-sive
22. May-o-co-maib
23. Wa-washe-kesin
24. Peh-keh-cun
25. Way-a-waince
26. Amable
27. Maca-ta-wa-quot-ouce
28. Wa-pe-seaine
29. Amick
30. Na-ca-miche-ca-wah
31. Na-sa-wa-pea
32. Qu-nio
33. Josette
34. Way-e-weah
35. His son Washio
36. Amable Junior
37. Wa-pe-ke-nance
38. Ma-ke-me-tance
39. Na-che-we-toe
40. Pau-com-mah
41. Ke-wa-wosah
42. Ke-ne-payalt
43. Wa-pa-wa-che
44. Mach-wau-pe-me
45. Pe-po-ne-nee Junior
46. Pau ma se ga
47. Che-me-na-quotte
48. Kin-o-po-wave
49. Ie-na-an-quotte
50. Shau-n—pave
51. Neh-o-po-wave
52. Ma-woove
53. Wau-po-ma-she
54. Wa-pe-na-ma-kive
55. Ka-quah-ta-pe-toe
56. Pau-sha-mock
57. Ca-che-ta-na-quotte
58. Ka-ka-no-tock
59. Paw-ta-shive
60. Moshetts son
61. Wa-pa-na-nau
62. Pau sho mock Junior
63. Ma she naw
64. O que ma o kive
65. Pio ta me
66. We-pe-kive-a-nive
67. Ka-coche
68. Ma-che-pa-tove
69. Na-pa-nash-some
70. O ca ma shaw Senior
71. O-na-gues-sias
72. Pecha-pe-ca
73. Shaw-pau-toc

[Cliff Krainik]

Hi Pete,

You wrote -

"There were two companies of Menominee Indians that served under Stambaugh. One under George Johnston the other under Augustin Grignon. Here is the muster roll for Johnston's company. I will post Grignon's company when I have finished transcribing it. ..."

Would you please tell us what is the original source of your transcription? Thanks.

Cliff

[pshrake]

Sure Cliff!

The transcriptions were made from photocopies of the original muster rolls found on file in the Henry and Elizabeth Baird Papers in the archives at the Wisconsin Historical Society in Madison.

It took some digging, the rolls were filed in the Miscellaneous files and after searching through 6 boxes of material was literally the last file I looked at.

Just how Baird ended up with the muster rolls is somewhat of a mystery. He was a contemporary lawyer in the Green Bay area and had other business dealings with Stambaugh.

The Grignon company is similar but slightly different in that they had a sergeant and the warriors were listed as privates.

Pete

[Cliff Krainik]

Pete,

You wrote in part -

"The Grignon company is similar but slightly different in that they had a sergeant and the warriors were listed as privates."

WOW ! This is fantastic stuff. Thanks for giving us the provenience of your transcription. Much obliged.

Cliff

[Larry Koschkee]

A great catch on finding the muster rolls among those old dusty file boxes, Pete. Do you experience an allergic reaction to the dust in the archives?

The muster roll raises some questions for me.

The muster roll for Capt. George Johnston company indicates Paid in full for the above time. Can we conclude that the Menomoniee were paid for serving the same as a white militia man?

If the Menomoniee were considered a bona fide Michigan Territory militia unit and received compensation for their services, perhaps the other Michigan Territory muster rolls will show that Captain Hamilton's group of Winnebagoes and Sioux were also a bona fide militia.

Looking forward to the transcription of Grignon's unit.

Thanks Pete,

Larry Koschkee

[pshrake]

Here is the muster roll for Capt. Augustin Grignon's Company as found in the Baird Papers, SHSW Archives

Pete



Capt. Augustin Grignon’s Co.
Menominee Indians
Under Col. S.C. Stambaugh
Green Bay
20th July to 28th Aug. 1832
Black Hawk War

Paid in full for the above time.

******************************************


Roll of Capt. Augustin Grignon’s Co.
Menominee Warriors, marching under orders of Genl. Atkinson & under command of Col. S.C. Stambabugh.

Enrolled at Green Bay.
Service from 20th July to 28th Aug 1832

1. Augustin Grignon, Capt.
2. Charles A, Grignon 1st Lieut act as interpreter
3. William Powell 2nd do. do. do.

1. George Grignon 1st Sergeant

1. Auskash or the Brave 1st Chief
2. Ko-mah-ne-kin, or Big Wave
3. Maw Basseaux
4. Pow wa ko ny, or the Great Soldier
5. key shaw, or the Sun

1. Monsh-kau-man-gay – the Leader


War Chiefs
1. Tchi-ka-mah-kichin
2. Monse, or The Moose
3. Chip pau na go
4. Nah-nan-hapete

Privates
1. Tamas-saw-bon
2. Minsh-kimete
3. Haw ish quon kau
4. Shaw ky mah
5. Miomee
6. Ash-kinette
7. Ky ny wackau
8. His-son
9. Maun Luard
10. Kau-ky-ke-sie
11. Wap panon
12. Wau-wish-kam
13. Ca-shah-na-ma
14. Wapa-shi-au
15. O-saw-wau-no-guet
16. Wap pi n amah kie
17. Matche-ka-nie
18. Nin-to-ka-shete
19. Auski-she-quaw-house
20. Ky-sha-shik
21. Traugh whoy shay, Senior
22. Pau autch ka wette
23. Weu nis sauté
24. Shero-mine
25. Ke-Ka-now-wau-nah kete
26. Shah-nam-whay
27. Na tau-ko-owe
28. Way-taus-sha
29. Ish-kou-watch-ah pet
30. Pis-ke-watch-a-ni-ny
31. Niu mouh chute
32. Pie hi-pi-ka
33. Pitchipittawa
34. Wap-Bish-sha gay
35. Nigau-na-que-aine
36. Shai-ke-to que-Junior
37. Na-pem-ma shaie
38. Maugh-ki-mittaie
39. Washawe
40. Way-ke-man wette
41. Saw-wan-now-mittaie
42. Pin-nin-shi-aw
43. Naugh maugh na quet
44. Mons-so-mon-nah
45. Mackataia quet
46. Ma-Cake
47. Shew-ny-on
48. Ky ne shaie (Ky ne chaie)
49. Aio-shaw-shew
50. Te-kow
51. Sane-ka-na-quet
52. Wai-she-quoi-quet
53. Ky-shi-yauch
54. Ny-con-shette
55. Pepon na naie
56. Ke-woi-tche-ke-tas-shew
57. Wach kitehion
58. Nah-nan-pe-tok
59. Mettaiwon pe chait
60. Au-ke-tauk
61. Hau-wau-peme-shaie
62. Ettaw wan nan paie
63. Worshe one
64. Woi-shaw-we-goin
65. Autchi-poinse
66. Naw ke shecke
67. Kaush-kaush
68. Batise- Junior
69. Carron- son of Catish
70. Mi-ya-qui-gick
71. Ap-pashe min
72. Pep-pon-ny naie
73. Wauboose Junior
74. Tauc-Kore-ka naie
75. Wackau

[pshrake]

Larry raises an interesting question about the payment of the Menominee Indians.

If one notes, both of the muster rolls have the line

"Paid in full for the above time"

Augustin Grignon states in his memoirs in Volume 3 of the Wisconsin Historical Collections

“All our surviving party have received bounty land warrants, which the Menomonees have generally sold; and Robert Grignon, in consequence of his wound, receives a pension.”

It appears that the Menominee recieved land for thier service. There was some discussion at the time whether they would be allowed to retain the arms issued to them from Fort Howard, but I have found no evidence that this was done.

What does intreague me about this payment is the timing. Earler in this thread I posted a segment of Col. Stambaugh's report dated Aug. 18, 1832. At the very end of that report Stambaugh mentions that his officers are completing the final paperwork specifically noting the muster rolls.

So..... if the muster rolls date to August 1832, and both state that the Menominee are paid in full, and Grignon writes years later that they all got land for thier services......What land was given, and when, and where is the record of this transaction?

I am very familiar with the records of the Green Bay Indian Agency, I have yet to see any mention of landgrants to the Menominee. Yet the evidence seems to indicate that land, and probably a sizeable chunk at that, was transferred to the tribe almost imediately upon thier return!

Pete

[Larry Koschkee]

Some time ago, I was researching the events that led to a Christianized group of New York Indians, Munsee, Brothertown, Stockbridge and Oneida, relocating to what is now Wisconsin. More specifically, I was struck with the charity expressed by the Winnebago and Menominee towards this group. This joint tenancy of land was very unique as the New York Indians did not go to war to obtain it. The New York Indians repaid this kindness later in helping the Menominee stay in Wisconsin. Many of the New York Indians were educated and had experience in land dealings with the United States, therefore the Menominee counciled with them for advice during the cessation of lands by treaty as part of the Indian removal policies of the U. S.

Following the 1827 Treaty at Butte des Morts, heavy pressure was applied by the U.S. to give up land. In 1831, the Menominee signed a treaty in Washington and rewarded the New York Indians for their counciling by ceding 500,000 acres for the benefit of the New York Indians.

In 1848 the Menominee were forced into ceding their remaining lands and were ordered to remove to a Minnesota reservation. The tribe resisted by not going to war but by using the U.S. judicial system. They filed petition upon petition to tie up the removal process which finally paid off in the Treaty of 1854. The Menominee were allowed a 276,000 acre reserve along the Oconto and Wolf rivers. In those petition arguements they cited 1832 land warrants given to members of the tribe for their loyalty and service to the U.S. Government.

My notes show the land grants were cited in Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, micro film P97-2750, reel 1. Titled Documents Relating to the Negotiation of Ratified and Unratified Treaties with Various Tribes of indians, 1801-1869

[pshrake]

Thanks Larry,

This matter of land warrants for the Menominee Indians has really intreagued me. Your tip on the Treaty of 1848 is most interesting and helpful. I guess Im going to have to start digging in the treaty records and see what pops up.

Your knowlegdge and research knows no bounds! My masters thesis was on the Menominee Treaty of 1831. We do differ though on the attitude the Menominee took towards the New York Tribes. The emigration of the eastern Indians was enabled by two treaties one in 1821 the other in 1822. The 1821 treaty was fairly amicable as you suggest. After the 1822 treaty, in which the New York Indians gained ownership or joint ownership with of nearly all the existing Menominee lands, the Menominee cried fraud and deception.

A ten year boundary dispute ensued. The Federal government tired to mediate the issue in 1825 and again in 1827 but failed. In 1830 three commissioners were sent to Green Bay to settle the matter and held a frustrating and long fruitless council during which the Menominee Chief Four Legs lost his temper and even pulled out a sword during the proceedings.

At the very end of the council Col. S.C. Stambaugh arrived at the Bay to assume control of the Indian Agency there. He almost immediately took a delegation of Menominee Chiefs to Washington and rammed through a treaty trying very hard to leave the New York Indians out of the deal. The resulting treaty of 1831 reversed the agreement made in 1822 and cut the New York Indian land holdings down to the 500,000 acre tract outside Green Bay.

I have always believed that one of the main reasons the Menominee were so keen on having Stambaugh command them in the Black Hawk War was because of what he did for them in the 1831 treaty.

Pete

[Larry Koschkee]

Pete, thanks for the insight into the relations between the New York Indians and the Menominee. Your comments do differ somewhat from the view I perceived relations to be. My research on the relations was by avocation only or you could say recreational. My interest stemmed from the question, why were the Menominee so quick to align themselves with the U.S. during Red Bird's War and the BHW? After all the Winnebago and Menominee co-existed side by side for many years and the Menominee turned against them instantaneously. Well that would a subject for a seperate thread.

For my clarification, please help me understand the portion of the 1831 Treaty that ceded lands to the New York Indians.

First of all you indicated the 1822 Treaty called for a much larger land area for the New York Indians, then indicated the 1831 Treaty reduced those acres to 500,000. Correct?

Did the ten year boundary dispute finally get resolved in the 1831 Treaty only to be dashed on the rocks by the U.S. Senate? It is my understanding the U. S. Senate amended the treaty by adding an article that modified the boundary lines of the parcel of land set aside for the New York Indians, thereby upsetting the Menominee.

Did this altered boundary line change the amount of acres to be set aside?

Is it correct that the Menominee refused to ratify the treaty based on disputed boundary lines, not because of the amount of acres set aside?

Did negotiators return to the original boundary line language of the 1831 Treaty or was a third boundary line drawn up to the satisfaction of the Menominee?

I am thankful for this message board in so many ways, the least of which is having the opportunity to pull out some my old notes on subjects that I thought there would never be an opportunity to discuss.

Thanks Pete

Larry

[Larry Koschkee]

The insertion of the two muster rolls into this thread by Mr. Peter Shrake adds another dimension to this part of the BHW. For one, it facilitates corroboration of published historical accounts, heretofore not possible.
For example, Mr. Braun brought into this discussion Augustin Grignon's account of the action near Cassville that indicated some of the prominent Menominee Indians that were present. Mr. Braun obtained his quote from Butterfield's History Of Iowa County. I will quote Grignon's account from Wisconsin Historical Collections, Vol III, pp 294-295.

From Col. Wm. S. Hamilton we learned, at Prairie du Chien, that a trail of Sauks had been discovered down the river. Fully one half of our party, with Geo. Grignon and Wm. Powell, remained at Prairie du Chien, while Oshkosh, I-om-e-tah, Souligny, Carron, Pe-wau-te-not, with their warriors, proceeded by land, accompanied by Col. Hamilton.

Comparing that paragraph to the muster rolls we can verify names.

Oshkosh - Auskash or The Brave (Grignon's unit)
I-om-e-tah - A-yem-e-tah (Johnston's unit)
Souligny - Lou-le-je-nei (Johnston's unit)
Carau - Carron (Johnston's unit)
Pe-wau-te-not - Pe-wait-ton-etto (Johnston's unit)

Grignon's account does not mention the man considered to be the Head Chief of all Menominee at the time who was in Johnston's unit. Pow-wa-ko-ny. Pow-wa-ko-ny or The Great Soldier or Big Soldier or Grand Soldier was at the last battle. Whitney's BHW Vol II, Part II, page 856.

He considered the Menominee encounter with the Sauk refugees near Cassville as "childs play" and therefore did not discharge his gun in the skirmish.

A curious situation emerges when you compare the muster rolls to Grignon's account and the Whitney quote. The prominent Indians, with the exception of Oshkosh, who were with Grignon and Col William Hamilton at the battle were all from Captain George Johnston's unit. Also, Robert Grignon, a Lieutenant with Johnston's unit was at the battle.

Grignon's 2nd Lieutenant, William Powell and his 1st Sergeant, George Grignon "remained at Prairie du Chien."

From all this I ponder why all the mixing up of personnel between the units? Did sickness and fatigue take its toll in the last days of these two units?

My last remaining question is where is Captain George Johnston? Was it an oversight that Grignon did not mention Johnston staying behind at Prairie du Chien or was he at the battle also?

[pshrake]

Great questions Larry! I share your sentiments. Its been many years since I had reason to talk about the Treaty of 1831 with anybody. You will have to forgive me in that I am writing this from work and do not have my research files in front of me. When I get home I will pull out the old files and reply to your questions on the Treaty of 1831.


As for the reshuffleing of the Menominee Warriors at Cassville I think I have a possible answer for you. Stambaugh wrote in his final report of August 18, 1832:

"Information had reached Head Quarters that morning that a trail had been discovered in the direction of Cassville, near the margin of the Mississippi apparently made by a party of 50 or 60 of the enemy, and the Genl. Ordered me to pursue them immediately with the Menominee Warriors. The main body of the Menominees had succeeded in crossing the ferry at about 11 O’clock A.M. when the order arrived. After allowing them a short time to [rest], I ordered a party of the most active to get in readiness, with three days rations for this expedition, directing the old men and those who were unable from sore feet to march rapidly, to remain at the ferry. I then spoke to the Chiefs in Council- made known Genl. Akinson’s orders, that as the enemy had been nearly all destroyed they might return to their homes, which order would be carried into effect after they had seen their friends at the Prairie and the present expedition terminated, the nature of which I explained to them. I recrossed the Wisconsin that evening with one hundred and six warriors and encamped a mile south of the ferry."

So Stambaugh cut his command down from about 177 to 106. Might one assume then that Capt. Johnston commanded the detachment that remained at Brunett's Ferry?

Pete

[Larry Koschkee]

Pete, your last post affirmed my consensus that the two militia units were comingled because of the infirm and fatigue in the ranks.

I agree with you that until we can uncover information specifically placing Captain Johnston at Brunet's Ferry and or at Prairie du Chien, we will have to assume he was present.

Thanks for the additional information.

Larry

[Larry Koschkee]

Contrary to what the title of this post implies, this subject is on a serious note. (Many of us with rural backgrounds are familiar with the expression "He/she does not know whether they are a foot or horseback." The reference is given to individuals that exhibit a state of confusion or lack of intelligence.)

The following is gleaned from Pete Shrake's post of Stambaugh's August 18th, 1832 report to Boyd.

I ordered a party of the most active to get in readiness, with three days rations for this expedition, directing the old men and those who were unable from sore feet to march rapidly...At 11 o'clock A.M. of the of the 18th inst we struck the trail of the Sacs. We made three of their encampments within a few hours, every one exhibiting signs of habitation more fresh than the last gave new life to the movement of the Menominies. The officers could scarcely keep pace with them, on horseback...

My view is; other than the officers, the Menominee units were not mounted. On the other hand, the Sauks may have been mounted to a certain extent, therefore more mobile.

In the posts of this thread, we found that Captain Glendower Price's mounted militia struck the trail of the Sauk on the 14th or 15th of August. Price's unit numbered 18 and after examining the trail concluded the trail was made by more horses than theirs and decided to call in reinforcements. I can not put my finger on the outside source at this moment, but there was an account that indicated Col Stambaugh received news of this Sauk trail of about 50 to 60 horses.

On more than one occasion, posts on this message board discussed the U.S. Army's recognition of the advantage of a mounted force in pursuit of the combatants. My point is: If General Atkinson's infantry could not catch the combatants, why would he give orders to Stambaugh's foot soldier units to give chase?

(One answer might be... to perhaps appease the Menominee by getting them into some sort of military action.)

Larry