A "red flag" at Stillman's Run?

[Robert Braun]

Thomas Ford's History of Illinois p. 118 contains the following:

Major Stillman began his march on the 12th of May, and pursuing his way on the south-east side he came to "Old Man's" creek, since called "Stillman's Run," a small stream which rises in White Rock Grove in Ogle county and falls into the river near Bloomingville. Here he encamped just before night; and in a short time a party of Indians on horseback were discovered on a rising ground about one mile distant from the encampment. A party of Stillman's men mounted their horses without orders or commander and were soon followed by others, striging along for a quarter of a mile, to pursue the Indians and attack them. The Indians retreated after displaying a red flag the emblem of defiance and war, but were overtaken and three of them slain. (Emphasis added.)

Interesting.

Do any other accounts support Ford's assertion?

[Robert Braun]

John A. Wakefield recorded the following:

A large fresh trail was discovered, which directed its course to a point of timber, a short distance to the left of the encampment. Shortly after the battalion halted, and while busily engaged in preparing supper, several horsemen were discovered on a hill about half a mile in front. They were at first sight taken for a part of the enemy's advance guard. Some of the men mounted their horses, and rode toward them. They were discovered to be Indians, and two of them came to the camp, professing to be Pottawattomies and friends, but on the approach of our advance the Indians gave a whoop, unfurled a red flag and fell back at full speed. -- Our horsemen followed, and after a chase of four miles and a half, overtook them in a low marshy piece of ground, where a sharp firing took place. Three Indians were left dead, and several were dismounted; one of our men was wounded in a personal combat, and two were dismounted and lost their horses.
Emphasis added.

[Robert Braun]

As a side note, and perhaps more appropriately listed elsewhere on this board:

Bertha Heilbron, in Das Illustrirte Mississippithal, p. 118, noted the custom of the Dakota and Chippawa to distinguish the resting places of warriors with a red flag--

Where a warrior is buried, one always finds a little red flag waving over the coffin, but over the coffins of women and children there are white flags. Among the Chippewa, the coffins are customarily fastened in the branches of trees. The origin of the procedure for both tribes no doubt arises out of the fact that in these regions countless packs of wolves roam. If the people were to bury the dead in the earth, the wolves would dig them up in less time than it would take the Indian, with his primitive tools, to make the grave.

The illustration provided in the volume is also instructive:

[Cliff Krainik]

RED FLAG - AUTHOR ! AUTHOR !


Bob,

In "Native use of the red flag" - today at 12:41pm - you wrote -

"As a side note, and perhaps more appropriately listed elsewhere on this board:
Bertha Heilbron, in Das Illustrirte Mississippithal , p. 118, noted the custom of the Dakota and Chippawa to distinguish the resting places of warriors with a red flag--"

The Valley of the Mississippi Illustrated was written by Henry Lewis. It was originally issued in a German translation (Das illlustrirte Mississippithal ) in the 1850's. Bertha L. Heilbron wrote the superb introduction and notes for the 1967 reprint for the Minnesota Historical Society.

Unfortunately, you just missed a chance to get me a real nice birthday present. A fine copy of Das illlustrirte Mississippithal sold at Sotheby's in New York on December 13th (Lot 1585833083) for $17,000.00 plus the buyer's premium.

I would LOVE to own an original Plate Number 26 "The Battle of Bad Axe."

Cliff

[Robert Braun]

Yeah... I knew that. Was thinking Henry but reading Bertha when typing. Thanks for the correction, Cliff!

[Cliff Krainik]

You're welcome. Now, about that birthday present ...

[Larry Koschkee]

In my humble opinion... the Illinois Militia observed a British flag. A "Union Jack" or Red Ensign...

This "British Band," undefeated in battle, remained a proud and defiant enemy of the Long Knives (Americans) and were they not expecting to rendezvous with a British detachment at Milwaukee to obtain guns, ammo and supplies from their across the sea Father?

Black Hawk probably still had the "War Belt" that the British gave him in Quebec after the War of 1812, which was a badge of courage and source of inspiration for his warriors. So it does not surprise me that the band had British flags with them.

BTW, In Whitney's BHW, Vol II, Part I, page 563 Andrew H Maxfield mentioned a red flag in his letter to the editor of the Sangamo Journal dated June 10, 1832.

"After a pursuit of about five miles up Rock river, we overtook the fugitives, and found them armed with bows and arrows, spears and rifles. At the further edge of a ravine, about 40 rods wide, we recognized a red flag, and ordered them to surrender. This order being disobeyed we fired and brought down three Indians and one pony."

Larry K

[Robert Braun]

You raise an interesting idea here, Larry.

Clearly the British Band was in possession of such a flag at the Prophet's Town, when Mr. Gratiot's white flag was torn down (gee... I wonder what THAT symbolized) and a British flag raised. Captain Henry Smith wrote:

About this time Henry Gratiot, Esq., the sub-agent for the Winnebagoes of the mining country, obeying the impulse of his duty, intrepidly proceeded to Black Hawk's camp, near the Prophet's village [on April 24, 1832], for the purpose of holding a council with the chiefs, to ascertain their object, and to warn them to return. The Indians not only refused to hear him, but tore down his flag, raised the British flag, and took Mr. Gratiot prisoner. There is little doubt that his fate would have been sealed but for the interposition of the Winnebagoes, who purchased him of the Sauks, and restored him to liberty. We also learned that the Sauks and Foxes had been instigated to their present course by Wawbekashick, the Prophet, a half Winnebago and half Sauk, and possessing much influence with both nations from his assumption of the sacred character, from his talents, his inveterate hostility to the Americans, and his cold-blooded cruelty.

And... we read from Estes' account as cited in Thayer's Massacre at Bad Axe the following:

Upon the small island, several Indians were also killed; and here, Captain Estes discovered an Indian sack with something red hanging out of it; when this was taken out, it proved to be a British flag, entirely new, and never soiled. Major [Captain Richard Barnes] Mason of the United States Army, was with Captain Estes when the flag was found; it was passed from hand to hand among the troops; what became of it afterward is not ascertained.

I also simply note that between these two incidents no one seems to recognize the "red flag" as a British ensign.

[Larry Koschkee]

Bob... could you please explain your last paragraph.

"I also simply note that between these two incidents no one seems to recognize the "red flag" as a British ensign"

Thank You

Larry K

[Robert Braun]

Sure, Larry. I appreciate the opportunity.

My comment was to merely (hence the word "simply") note, without comment, opinion, or conclusion, that the three sources cited appear to present themselves chronologically between Gratiot's and Estes' recollections. These writers record or cite seeing a "red flag." The fellows at either end of the chronology observe a British ensign.

I merely observe that difference-- that the fellows in the middle note a "red flag."

[Larry Koschkee]

Well... Bob, what do you make of this then?

While Black Hawk's delegates were carrying a flag of truce to the Illinois militia...

Black Hawk said: "I was preparing my flags to meet the war chief."

BTW, I would like to insert Henry Gratiot's own account of the flag incident that Captain Henry Smith wrote about.

"When we arrived at the Prophet's village (Black Hawk's camp) my indians of their own accord hoisted a white flag. The Black Hawk had it taken down and the british flag planted at the end of the tent. I, by an interpreter, told them that the white flag was mine and demanded the reason for taking it down. In explanation they said that: I might travel with a flag, but should not keep it flying while there. But I, notwithstanding, ordered my Winnebagoes to raise it again - they did so - the Sauks then came and tied the english one by the side of it, and they floated together till fortunately a shower of rain afforded an excuse for taking them both down."

Quote is from The Black Hawk War 1831 - 1832 Ellen Whitney, Vol. II, Part I, p. 318... letter from Henry Gratiot to Henry Atkinson, Rock Island, IL, April 27, 1832

Here is Black Hawk's version of Capt. Henry Smith's quote: "During this council, a number of my braves hoisted the British flag, mounted their horses, and surrounded the council lodge! I discovered that the agent was very much frightened! I told one of his chiefs to tell him that he need not be alarmed - and then went out and directed my braves to desist. Every warrior immediately dismounted, and returned to his lodge. After the council adjourned, I placed a sentinel at the agent's lodge, to guard him - fearing that some of my warriors might again frighten him! I had always thought that he was a good man, and was determined that he should not be hurt."...
Source is Black Hawk an Autobiography Edited by Donald Jackson, Illinois Books, 1964 pp. 120-121

In addition, I am inserting a quote from a letter Henry Atkinson to Alexander Macomb, Fort Armstrong, April 27th, 1832

"Yesterday they set out in company with the Prophet's band for the purpose of taking a position on Rock river some 15 or 20 miles above Ogees now Dixon's ferry, where they are determined to hold out, in defiance of any force, they say, that can be sent against them. They have the British flag hoisted under which the war dance is constantly exhibited. They must be checked at once, or the whole frontier will be in a flame.

The Black Hawk War 1831- 1832, Ellen Whitney, Vol II, Part I, p 319

Bob I am seeing a lot of "Red" here in this thread in the form of British flags!

I have found that Indians, with few exceptions, have traditonally been non-vexillary, prefering to distingush themselves from one another with attire, totems, art, bonnets, coup sticks, and streamers. It is evident Black Hawk's British band is an exception.

Larry K

[Robert Braun]

Larry... thanks as always for the additional quotations. I agree, and again stipulate the use of the British ensign at BH's camp near the Prophet's Town.

Issue 1: The "red flag."

The mention of a "red flag" certainly suggests the British ensign as one possible solution. It is tempting to think so, particularly since the history and practice of some of the Sauk since 1820 was to proudly fly their British flags and wear British peace medals.

I remain troubled by one lingering issue: The sources and witnesses you cite clearly identified the British Flag at the April 24 "encounter" at Prophet's Town. Captain Estes clearly described the flag he claimed to have found on the island in the Mississippi on/after August 2. This begs the question: why did Wakefield, Ford (quoting Wakefield? or someone else?) and Maxfield identify and record only a "red flag?"

And if our postulate is: "They recorded a 'red flag' because Mansfield, et alsaw the flag at distance, and hence only observed the red canton of the flag," then why would the small party pursued by Mansfield be carrrying one of the precious British ensigns, and flying it-- thus broadcasting to any viewer their allegiance and the fact that they were hostile?

Issue 2: Black Hawk

When they came in with the news, I was preparing my flags to meet the war chief.

My impression and opinion is that BH's party were preparing additional flags of true, with which "to meet the war chief." I have two reasons for this opinion:

Reason A: We can document the practice of multiple flags of truce during BH's only real surrender attempt: on August 1 at the banks of the Mississippi--- the Warrior incident. Reuben Holmes wrote General Atkinson on August 5th, reporting: ""The interpreter [on the Warrior] informed us [on board] that they said they were Winnebagoes, they, themselves, immediately raised two white flags and, by signs & calls, endeavoured to induce us to land the boat."

There is additional evidence of multiple white flags during the BHW. Captain Gustavus Loomis, the commandant at Fort Crawford, suggested the practice in attempting to intercept Black Hawk's people escaping down the Wisconsin river from the Wisconsin Heights battle site: "I have requested [Winnebago Indian Agent] Genl. [Joseph M.] Street to tell the Winnebagoes to go out with flags and endeavor to Persuade them all to come in and surrender themselves."

Reason B: Given the temperament of the Americans, particilarly War of 1812 veterans to things "British" in the region, I can't think of anything that would infuriate the Americans more than an armed native band (perceived to be invading the state of Illinois, mind you) dashing out to parley with a white flag and a British ensign side by side. Such a practice would defy both martial custom and martial practice... particularly the British martial practice with which BH himself would have been most familiar.

I suggest that the intent of BH's use of the plural "flags" was multiple white flags, with which to approach and parley the American camp at Old Man's Creek.

[Larry Koschkee]

Bob... there are definately some lingering questions surrounding the topic of this thread. Just a couple more comments or opinions here...not wanting to go over plowed ground, though.

Your last post framed a couple of issues.

Issue 1: The "red flag"

The three accounts, Ford, Wakefield and Maxfield indentified a "red flag." Andrew Maxfield said:we RECOGNIZED a red flag. Just what does that statement mean?. Does it mean they saw a flag that was the color red or could it mean they saw the flag was red and recognized it as a British flag?

Also, you asked "then wy would the small party pursued by Maxfield be carrying one of the precious British ensigns, and flying it -- this broadcasting to any viewer their allegiance and the fact that they were hostile?"

My response to that is: they were probably not "flying" the flag when first observing the situation with the three warriors with the white flag of truce, rather they did exactly what John Wakefield recorded. When the militia approached the five Indians they unfurled a red flag and fell back at full speed.

Issue 2: Black Hawk Quote: When they came in with the news, I was preparing my flags to meet the war chief.

My take on this statement is that yes he was preparing a white flag of truce, but also a British flag. He was going to meet the "war chief" symbolicaly with a British flag flying and upon receiving satisfactory terms for a non surrender status, a escort back accross the Mississippi River. If that was granted the British flag would come down and he would personally present it to the "war chief", preferably, General Atkinson. He came accross the river with British flags but would return without them, thereby burying the tomahawk.

It only takes one white flag to surrender if the opposite side understands what it means and honor it. In the cases of multiple white flags you cited, I would suggest Black Hawk wanted to make sure the other side saw the flags and that he was serious about a truce to parley. You would not blame him after all, Stillman's boys did not honor a flag of truce. If the Americans don't honor one flag, maybe they will two. If that don't work try three, and so on and so on. Maybe it takes a whole flock of white flags to get their attention and commitment to a truce.

Finally, it is expecting a lot of Black Hawk (a "barbarian") to be up on martial custom and martial practice.

Larry

[Robert Braun]

I'm not sure I'm following you. If your arguement is that the British Band carried British flags, I have stipulated that.

If your arguement is that the "red flags" seen by Maxwell, Wakefield, et. al. were also British ensigns, I think that is one possibility. The fact that these several gents could not or did not identify the flag as British makes it an open question.

As for the issue of the flags at Stillman's Run, while I find your thoughts interesting, I do not find any indication that he was going to prepare a British ensign for the symbolic passing of the colors that you suggest... he didn't do so in 1831, he did not do so at Wisconsin Heights, he didn't do so on the banks of the Mississippi or elsewhere. It is reasonable, therefore, to suggest that it was not his intention at Old Man's Creek.

Since BH apparently did not intend to surrender, but rather parley, I am of the opinion that it is more likely than not that BH was preparing at least two white flags for a subsequent meeting with the "war chief." And... as you have seen, there are at least two examples of multiple white flags either suggested or used during the BHW.

I'm not sure what to make of some of your other statements, so I'll invite you to start new threads regarding honoring of white flags, or BH being a so-called "barbarian."

[Larry Koschkee]

Well... Bob so be it...I am not following your line of reasoning as well.

I do not accept your invitation.