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Post by Larry Koschkee on Apr 15, 2003 8:35:02 GMT -5
On June 27, 1827 a brass swivel and wall pieces from the fort were installed at the militia fort. This was the munitions that Col. Snelling left behind when the federal reservation Fort Crawford was abandoned in October of 1826.
Any ideas or comments on the type of stationary artillery pieces this would have been?
Larry K.
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Cliff Krainik
Member
MY HEROES HAVE ALWAYS LIFTED THE TOPKNOTS OF THE LONG KNIVES
Posts: 233
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Post by Cliff Krainik on Apr 15, 2003 10:10:42 GMT -5
Hi Larry,
Just spoke with Bob Comardo in Mineral Point, Wisconsin regarding your question as to the "type of stationary artillery pieces" which were left at Fort Crawford in 1826. Bob is an authority on ordinance used in the War of 1812 and has a particular expertise in the area of weapons at Fort Crawford and Prairie du Chien.
Accord to Mr. Comardo, the "brass swivel cannon" was an enlarged version of the Brown Bess musket - say 2 1/2 times as large. It was mounted on an oak lock and fired a one ounce ball.
The identification for the "wall pieces" is less exact although it probably reefers to small cannons - a "two pounder" mounted on a low wooden carriage. The carriage would be similar in design to that used on naval vessels of the time. Cannons firing balls 3 to 6 pounds would be more permanently mounted.
Cliff
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Apr 16, 2003 10:05:02 GMT -5
Cliff... thanks for the information on the artillery pieces.
When the alarm went out the militia volunteers first decided that the abandoned federal fort could not be defended because of its run-down condition, removed the artillery pieces and installed them at Jean Brunet's tavern encircled with breast-works of heavy timber. The following day the inhabitants decided to move everything back to old Fort Crawford and put up a defense there. This is indicative of the chaos and mayhem going on at the time.
They did not have to move the pieces far though. Jean Brunet's tavern stood on "Main Village" Lot No. 19, about two blocks south of the abandoned fort.
Larry K.
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Post by pshrake on Apr 16, 2003 23:03:30 GMT -5
Hi Larry,
Another reason the confused and alarmed villagers did not want to use the old fort was a rumor that the Indians had threatened to burn the fort if it was used as a place of refuge.
Thinking on Brunet's Tavern....
Where do you keep finding all this great information!?
I had tried to locate Brunets tavern a while back and could not locate the exact spot. Do you know where Lockwood's house was? That was also a site the community congregated for a while, there was also some talk of making his house a temporary fortification as well. It was also one of the spots Red Bird visited just prior to his murders at the Gagnier home.
Pete
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Apr 17, 2003 9:26:18 GMT -5
Pete...
P. L. Scanlan's Papers at the Wisconsin Room, Karrmann Library, Platteville, WI is one source for Brunet's Tavern and the other is Prairie du Chien Courier, Feb 1, 1938... This is a newspaper article on the Red Bird Murders by Scanlan.
I may have a location of Judge Lockwood's house in my copies of the Scanlan Papers. Will research further. Lockwood himself mentioned his house in his Winnebago War narrative in the History of Crawford County 1884. As the eminence on which my house stood overlooked the most of the prairie, some were for concentrating our people there and fortifying it.
If you have not had a chance to interview Mr. Robert Comardo of Mineral Point/Prairie du Chien it is a must do.
In this thread Cliff Krainik talked to him about the military pieces. I lost track of Bob some years back, which goes back to the Rollo-Jamieson Mining Museum in Platteville, WI, perhaps Cliff could make an introduction. Last I heard, Bob was restoring the oldest inhabitated house in Wisconsin located at Prairie du Chien, WI. He is also a person the OLRHS might want to invite to a meeting as a guest speaker.
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Post by Robert Braun on Apr 17, 2003 10:39:14 GMT -5
Bob Comardo is an old friend, and very knowledgable about the PDC area and PDC history. I had a chance to see the ancient home prior to Bob's restoration. I was very excited to hear his stories about the site being a potential trading post, and he showed me a few relics that supported this initial finding. I for one would be thrilled to have Bob speak at one of our meetings!
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Apr 17, 2003 11:06:10 GMT -5
Well there you have it... It certainly is a small world and appears Robert Comardo is well renown.
Larry K.
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Apr 18, 2003 10:57:07 GMT -5
Pete... BTW do you have the exact site location of the Registe Gagnier cabin?
I have not done any further research than obtaining this reference: Prairie du Chien - Birch-crowned Sugar Loaf hill, just south of here, is just a bit of pleasant scenery to the many who drive by it now, but almost exactly 107 years ago it looked down upon a tragedy which resulted in the Winnebago war... It was there, just south of Sugar Loaf, that the cabin of Registe Gagnier stood in the summer of 1827.
Source: Wisconsin State Journal, Madison, Wisconsin, June 30, 1935
Larry K.
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Cliff Krainik
Member
MY HEROES HAVE ALWAYS LIFTED THE TOPKNOTS OF THE LONG KNIVES
Posts: 233
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Post by Cliff Krainik on Apr 18, 2003 16:10:33 GMT -5
LOCATION OF REGISTRE GAGNIER HOUSE - PRAIRIE DU CHIEN
Michele and I went on a Black Hawk War tour sponsored by the Friends of the Wisconsin Historical Society in May of 2001. David Gjeston, formerly with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, gave a stellar tour of the battlefield of Wisconsin Heights.
When our excursion bus arrived at Prairie de Chien, Bob Birmingham - Wisconsin State Archeologist - pointed out with great sadness and dismay that the brand new SUPER WAL-MART was being constructed right over the location of the REGISTRE GAGNIER HOUSE !
The GAGNIER SUPER WAL MART is located at 38020 Highway 18 (that's on the west side of the road) just south of Prairie du Chien in Bridgeport Township. Neither store manager Gus Humble or Colleen Skaife - District Manager for Division 11 & 15 - were familiar with the Gagnier connection although Colleen did think the "historical thing" was "cool."
Cliff - A Sinipeean
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Post by pshrake on Apr 18, 2003 23:20:20 GMT -5
Sadly, I can only build on Cliff's commentary. The cabin site took quite a bit of searching but I found it sevaral years ago.
Scanlan had left some tantilizing clues in his book "Prairie du Chien, French, British, American" Then I ran across a article posted on the State Historical Society website, in thier section on local history they have been posting old newspaper articles. One in particlular focused on Scanaln and the fact that he had just located the cabin site, and was trying to have a historical marker placed on the spot. There even is a photo of him, pointing to the ground marking the site. The picture was grainy and gave little clues, but the article, like Scanlans book gave some more hints.
The biggest clue was the fact that the cabin was at the enterance to McNairs Coulee. Looking at period plat maps in the SHSW archives I located the rather large lot for Thomas NcNair, I also at the same time came across a letter written by Gagnier's granddaughter, relating the oral history of the her mother, Gagniers wife. Teresa Gagnier, not only gave some interesting detail into the actual incident, but also noted that there were two cabins at the site, the Gagnier homestead and that of a neighboring family.
Shortly after finding the letter I found two maps detailing the land around McNairs Coulee, one noted what most likely was Gagniers field, but the other actually had two little cabins drawn showing homestead sites at the mouth of the coulee.
Comparing Scanaln's notes with the period maps with a modern platt of that same area, I was able to roughly pinpoint the site. Birmingham is probably very right that the site is under the Wallmart. But I also think that it could be just adacent to the store, or even just a little farther away, perhaps a quarter mile or so. I would love to know how he located the site. I visited the site, just as they were building the Wallmart, and was able to get some pictures, albeit, not very good ones.
Sorry for going off on a tangent, As you probably have guessed, I never get to tell this story to anyone.
Pete
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Post by Robert Braun on May 19, 2003 16:34:15 GMT -5
Upon reflection, I am going to disagree that the brass swivel gun was an enlarged version of the "Brown Bess." This to me sounds like a "wall" or "fortress" gun... being an engarged verson of flintlock arms of the period and mounted with a spike and swivel attachment for use on a log barracade. I think the brass swivel gun and the "wall pieces" (which may very well have been as Bob C. described) were two different weapons.
Brass swivel guns firing one to two pound shot were well-known into this time period, as several fur brigades in the Northwest apparently have been identified as using such ordnance on their river craft. The association of swivel guns with nautical history is both long and storied. Indeed, British maritime history records "Staghold's Gun and Harpoon," a brass, flintlock-fired swivel gun that used a whaling harpoon as a projectile. The inventor was awarded a prize by the Royal Society of Arts, 1772.
Swivel guns mounted on a fixed pivot could span numerous elevations and at least a 90 degree field of fire, often more. The problem was they were underpowered, usually exposed their users to gunfire, and were "fixed" in their position, and so could not be easily moved if a threat came from another quarter or outside their field of fire.
A light brass gun tube could well have been mounted on a light field carriage (similar to 'grasshopper' guns associated with the Revolutionary War) provided the tube was cast or fitted with trunions. However, such a mounting disqualifies the gun as a member of the "swivel" gun genre, IMHO.
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