"regular" discipline among militia

[Greg Carter]

List, after a recent event I found myself questioning whether or not militia on any given day behaved like the "regulars" in any activity. I wanted to conform my impression at Illinois events more accurately, so I consulted several volumes of Whitney's series. Some of the quotes below are laughable, others are just plain frightening. Any others out there I didn't list? Thoughts?

GMC

Offense #1: Not Coming Prepared

“Gentlemen we the undersigned settlers of this place Represent to your Honers that from the situation of our settlement as it respects arms amunition that we are in a critical situation and unless you can assist us with both there is no Doubt but the settlement will break up for there is not more than one fifth of the Inhabitants Have arms.”- Henderson Grove Settlers, 4-17-1832

“the Brigade Major having inspected Capt Solomon Farrington Company reports that twenty muskets are wanting to arm the Company completely.”- General Samuel Whiteside, 4-29-1832

“We have muskets but no cartridges- could you furnish some. P.S. there are 25 men from Handcock without arms.”- Governor John Reynolds, 5-4-1832

“But we are yet, in a measure of destitute of the means of defence, Viz Arms and Amunition, the best arms having been taken into service with the first Vollenteers.”- John Gay, 6-7-1832

Offense #2: Firing Weapons in Camp

“There is to be no firing of guns in the lines or encampment without permission from the field Officer under whose command the applicant may be placed; nor will any other disorderly conduct whatever be allowed in the brigade.”- General Samuel Whiteside, 4-30-1832

“The frequent firing of Arms in and about the vicinity of the encampments of the different corps of the army composed of the U.S. Infy. and the State troops of Illinois now in the field compels the Comdg. Genl. to forbid a practice so dangerous to the individual members of the different corps and derogatory to the military character of well organized troops.”- General Henry Atkinson, 5-17-1832

“We had yesterday only 4 sick reported. But an accident has added two more. Two men were shot yesterday in the barracks by one of Major Whistler’s command by accident. Our men requested one of the regulars to go through the rifle exercise for their instruction, He had one of their muskets which they told him was not loaded- but however, after having been snapped the third time, went off, & shot one man through the arm & & the other through the fleshy part of the thigh. No bones were broken, & Dr Winslow believes that they will do well.”- John R. Williams, 6-19-1832

“The Comdg. Genl. has been informed that some unauthorized persons are engaged in & about the vicinity of the camp of the Illinois Volunteers in vending ardent spirits to the troops. Brig Genl. Posey will cause all such persons to be immediately removed & forbidden to sell in the future. A guard will be established for the defence & good order of the camp. The discharge of Fire Arms in camp or on the march is strictly prohibited unless authorized by an order”- General Henry Atkinson, 6-17-1832

Offense #3: Drunk or Disorderly

“On my arrival on the ground of the parade, I found the company about 60-strong full of patriotism mixed with whiskey and denyed the principle of drafting part of the company much doubted the Validity of my acting out of the bounds of my present residence and positively refused to be ruled under the Validity of your official order.”- Charles Ballew, 5-13-1832

“All and every person whatsoever, who shall sell or give to any person spirituous liquors until 7 o’clock P.M., shall be punished as a court marshal shall determine. And all persons who shall fire guns without positive orders, unless while standing guard to give alarm, shall stand one hour on a pivot, supported by bayonets.”- Colonel James M. Strode, 5-22-1832

“If you have concluded to retain Capt. Mathew’s Compy. at this station I think it would be very advisable to muster Capt. Cox’s compy. out of service, as it is of very little service here in any point of view. He has so little control over the men that it is with difficulty he can obtain at any one time five men for fatigue purposes, besides, so far as military services are important, the compy. is of no account. They are more conspicuous as consumers of provisions and depositors of filth than they possibly can be for any other things.”- Reuben Holmes, 6-10-1832

“The troops at Ottoway and this place are perhaps as vigilant as militia are generally, but it certainly seems as if better disciplined troops would better contribute to the safety of the public stores at Ottoway & this place.”- Nathaniel J. Eaton, 6-25-1832

“No one can form an idea of the difficulties & disappointments which have been thrown in the way of General Atkinson, by the ridiculous conduct of the Militia, at first, but those who are near his person.”- Hugh Brady, 6-26-1832

Offense #4: Disobeying Orders

“Not having as yet reported my command to any of the officers of the United States Army, I cannot acknowledge myself subject to their orders.”- Captain James W. Stephenson, 5-28-1832

“The great disorder in the Brigade occasiond by the mens quiting their places in the line and stattering over the country renders absolutely necessary to inflict punishment on every one who violates orders in that particular…”- General Samuel Whiteside, 5-24-1832

Offense #5: Destruction of Property

“Mr. Robert Creighton a citizen of Helena having complained that a detachment of Genl. Posey’s Brigade of Ill. mounted Volunteers, has destroyed his crops consisting of ten acres of Oats four acres of Corn, one half acre of Wheat & three quarters of an acre of potatoes.”- General Henry Atkinson, 7-27-1832

“He also states that a Compy. of Volunteers or Illinois Militia are in service stationed at Thomas’ on Bureau, and that they be pillage and plunder are ruining the inhabitants of the district; he recommends that they be discharged…”- Zalmon C. Palmer, 8-28-1832

[Robert Braun]

List, after a recent event I found myself questioning whether or not militia on any given day behaved like the "regulars" in any activity.

I suppose to add a "definitional" slant to the discussion, we should first define the behavior of the "Regular" U. S. Army... specifically those army companies stationed in forts like Howard, Winnebago, Crawford, Snelling, Armstrong, and Jefferson Barracks, to name a few.

So, to begin, what/how was the behavior of Regular infantry companies in garrison, and how did this compare with their behavior on active campaign?

I think that some clues may be found in the Fort Winnebago Orderly Book published in the Wisconsin Historical Collection serices. Other clues may be inferred by the orders and communications sent and recieved. All in all, one must divorce onesself from the common modern mental image of the steel professional.. the stuff of the "thin red line of 'eroes" ilk, and look at America's professional Army as it was.

Generally speaking, the officer cadre was professionally educated, with years of tradition and history to back them. Enlisted men were a different breed-- many of whom were foreign born or from so-called "lower" segments of Society. These men tended guardens, cut hay, built forts, barracks, and buildings, and eventually the Military Road. One would argue that they evolved less into soldiers than tradesmen.

I am forming the opinion that the gulf between the officers and the enlisted men mirrored the gulf between the social classes evident in Jacksonian American society. And this gulf was sometimes deal with brutally, as evidenced by the Liuetenant Foster murder by an enlisted man at Fort Howard.

According to Juliette Kinzie, Wau Bun, pp. 336-7:

As we walked across the parade, our attention was sometimes called to a tapping upon the bars of the dungeon in which a criminal was confined--it was the murderer of Lieutenant Foster.

It may be remembered that this amiable young officer had been our travelling companion in our journey from Chicago the preceding year. Some months after his arrival at Fort Howard, he had occasion to order a
soldier of his company, named Doyle, into confinement for intoxication. The man, a few days afterwards, prevailed on the sergeant of the guard to
escort him to Lieutenant Foster's quarters on the plea that he wished to speak to him. He ascended the stairs to the young officer's room, while the sergeant and another soldier remained at the foot, near the door.

Doyle entered, and, addressing Lieutenant Foster, said, "Will you please tell me, lieutenant, what I am confined for?"

"No, sir," replied the officer; "you know your offence well enough; return to your place of confinement."

The man ran down-stairs, wrenched the gun from the sergeant's hand, and, rushing back, discharged it at the heart of Lieutenant Foster.

He turned to go to his inner apartment, but exclaiming, "Ah me!" he fell dead before the entrance.

Doyle, having been tried by a civil court, was now under sentence, awaiting his execution. He was a hardened villain, never exhibiting the slightest compunction for his crime.

In my opinion, some modern "U. S. Regular Infantry" impressions are based on certain mental pictures and a few presumptions as to what the regulars were, or more precisely what the mental picture BELIEVES they were, or should have been. Greg's recent work on the ragged condition of the Army during the 1832 campaign, and the collapse of discipline on August 2 along the banks of the Mississippi River forms a rather different impression of those "instruments of policy" that were the Regular Army soldiers.


After defining the Regulars, I think we can then establish a kind of "standard" to which the militia may be compared.

Bob.

[Greg Carter]

Very good points Bob. It is true the 1830's US Army was not the guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns as it is today. You bring up the point about private Doyle, the drunkard who killed the lieutenant at Fort Crawford.

I have to also point out a sergeant to deserted from Atkinson's forces almost immediately upon their arrival at Fort Armstrong in April. He was found secreted on a packet boat when it returned to Jefferson Barracks a week or so later.

The fact that Col. Z. Taylor specifically stated that it was difficult to control the men when they entered combat "EVERY TIME" is hard to overlook as well.

[Robert Braun]

Well.. I don't want a few "bad apples" to color the overall picture. My thinking is that we're dealing with a Regular Army composed of human beings, and not some martial supermen. Neither do I think we are dealing completely with the "dregs of society" either.

A "lack of control" means a lack of overall discipline among the rank-and-file. I thought it was this factor--discipline-- that seperated the Regulars from the militia?

With the exception of a professionally trained officer cadre and an established duty day at their respective forts, and certainly more drill, once the Regulars arrived on the tented field and were in active campaign-- how DIFFERENT was their deportment than that of the militia?*

I am neither Regular-bashing, nor militia-bashing-- just trying to make a reasonable assessment based on the available research.

Regards, Bob.

* I mean, I'm having a tough time forming a mental picture of files upon files of sweaty Regular Infantry marching into the "Trembling Lands" to the tune of "Wun." "Wun." "Wun Too Wun."

[Greg Carter]

Quite right. Undoubtedly the vast majority of the soldiers did well under the circumstances. After all, it was Colonel Taylor who lamented that the axe, plow and spade got more use than the musket and the bayonet in 1820.

Without a doubt a good number of the men had not seen serious combat or a distance campaign either.

As for drilling and whatnot one point above makes the lack of it abundantly clear- when that regular soldier was instructing the men, he didn't even bother to check if the musket was loaded, then still didn't notice the powder in the pan, until he shot two people.

As for the difference between the militia and regulars I have to wonder. Atkinson camped them on different sides of the Rock River to keep them apart, etc, and there aren't any reports in Whitney that I have discovered so far pointing to regulars spending their tin at a gin mill or anything.

**It's "wan.... wan.... too... wan...."

GMC

[Robert Braun]

Greg said:

Quite right. Undoubtedly the vast majority of the soldiers did well under the circumstances. After all, it was Colonel Taylor who lamented that the axe, plow and spade got more use than the musket and the bayonet in 1820.

Without a doubt a good number of the men had not seen serious combat or a distance campaign either.

As for drilling and whatnot one point above makes the lack of it abundantly clear- when that regular soldier was instructing the men, he didn't even bother to check if the musket was loaded, then still didn't notice the powder in the pan, until he shot two people.

As for the difference between the militia and regulars I have to wonder. Atkinson camped them on different sides of the Rock River to keep them apart, etc, and there aren't any reports in Whitney that I have discovered so far pointing to regulars spending their tin at a gin mill or anything.

**It's "wan.... wan.... too... wan...."

GMC

Greg... here's another interesting observation. Read over the style and the verbiage of the orders and communications written by the militia officers. They appear to follow period protocols regarding military trasmission of directives-- in some cases they are so good that one wonders if they are not following a style guide or some form of model for their communications.

Example:

Headquarters, Beardstown, April 29, 1832.

Special Order.--Major Thomas Long, commanding the odd battalion of infantry.

Sir:--You are hereby commanded to repair forthwith on the steamboat employed in the service of the United States to the mouth of Henderson's River, and there await further orders. And you will strictly prohibit all shooting and other disorderly conduct in your command, and use all military precaution to protect the steamboat upon which you are conveyed, and use every exertion to meet the army at the point designated on the 2d of May next.

By order of Brig.-Gen. Whiteside.
Nathaniel Buckmaster, Brigade Major.

While we're on this subject... Lloyd H. Efflandt in (I think) The Black Hawk War, Why? makes a real big deal over the fact that Gen. Whitesides' orders to Stillman came out under Major Buckmaster's signature-- claiming that Whitesides didn't want to issue the order himself (or words to that effect.) The implication, of course was that WHitesides didn't want to follow Governor Reynold's directive for a seperate Stillman foray, and Whitesides put Buckmaster up to issuing the orders.

This is a rather amazing thing for Efflandt, a former Army Colonel, to claim.

Efflandt's "conspiracy theory" aside--- his Army War College education surely included the fact that orders from general officers are frequently-- indeed usually-- disseminated under the signature of a duly authorized staff officer. Buckmaster, as "Brigade Major" and probably serving in the capacity as Whitesides' "Chief of Staff" performed no differently.

It is interesting how quickly the militia officers and staff fell into the "Regular" style of issuing written orders and communications.

Regards,

Bob
"Wan.... wan.... too... wan...."

[Greg Carter]

Bob,

Private Doyle can be listed among THREE soldiers in the MT who committed murder, including an officer, between 1828 and 1832.

I can't find the letter in Whitney I want to quote, but it is from an Illinois Militiaman who makes a point to remark that the officers very quickly availed themselves to the privilege of rank once elected. The militiaman writing the letter was very disgruntled about it.

GMC

[Robert Braun]

What does this say about the control the Regular offciers were able to exert over their soldiers?

We hear all about Stillman and his "rabble," yet an analysis of the Regulars (with the exception of your recent work) is seriously lacking.

Regards, Bob.

[josef]

Dear Board
There are many accounts of the both the Militia and the Regulars in many pages of books, but over all I would be safe to say that the Militia was far below the Regulars in many instances. If human nature is today what is was then and it is, you would have the same types of people. To believe there was not the same yard birds and goof off would be foolish. Just as there would have been people that believed in their cause in what they were doing and with the majority of the men just putting their time in. (Or what whalers called Watching the lay) One of the main things that seperates us from them other then the 170 odd years is modern techonlogy.
Josef Kleffman

[Robert Braun]

josef said:

Dear Board
There are many accounts of the both the Militia and the Regulars in many pages of books, but over all I would be safe to say that the Militia was far below the Regulars in many instances. If human nature is today what is was then and it is, you would have the same types of people. To believe there was not the same yard birds and goof off would be foolish. Just as there would have been people that believed in their cause in what they were doing and with the majority of the men just putting their time in. (Or what whalers called Watching the lay) One of the main things that seperates us from them other then the 170 odd years is modern techonlogy.
Josef Kleffman

Joe, you raise some intresting points.

I am curious if the storied reputation of U. S. Regulars carried through in the instance of the Black Hawk War. I think there is endence to suggest that "discipliune" was lacking, particularly on active campaign, and as evidenced by clues to their conduct at the "Battle of the Mississippi" (Bad Axe.)

We have seen in this and other threads, including the allegations of drinking prior to Old Man Creek, that the militia was frankly not as poor as its reputation has been painted over the last quarter century and longer.

The question in my mind is "were the Regulars as GOOD" as their reputation has been painted over the years?

Regards, Bob.

[josef]

Like I always say the truth laies some where in between. Iam sure some of the militia were not just the sweeping off the grociery floor and Iam sure that some units were. We always have this mental picture that the regualr ran like robots ( or like some of the people would protray them) and the fact of the matter is that they were humans to. Iam sure the displine was lacking among the frontier units stationed there.
Joe Kleffman