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Post by Robert Braun on Oct 31, 2002 12:21:19 GMT -5
All right... we know the militia had them, and we know that in part, the Federal Government issued them.
But what did they look like?
I'm not buying the line that 18th century tomahawks currently offered by vendors were used through the War of 1812... and into the Sauk War.
Any thoughts?
r.
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Post by Nick Hoffman on Oct 31, 2002 14:45:28 GMT -5
Not to mention those 18th Century tomahawks sold by sutlers are generally poorly documented to say the least. The problem is, there really are not many serious/authentic War of 1812 Militia portrayals to make a higher demand for more authentic 19th Century goods. It can even be tough to find proper knives, just as it is to find good Sutlers who just sell simple clothing (sorry Townsend doesnt cut it!). ;D Where did Jackson's Life Guard get their hatchets? They put a great deal of research into their work, perhaps they carry more authentic hatchets. Anyone have connections to reach them? Take Care, Nick Hoffman
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Post by Greg Carter on Oct 31, 2002 16:52:07 GMT -5
I believe that either the Museum of the Fur Trade or the Hudson's Bay Company museum has some artificacts on display of items that pre- and post-date the Sauk War. The Hudson's Bay museum has a bunch of stuff online, I just can't remember the site offhand.
On a side note, I have seen Native American tomohawk artifacts post-dating the 1832 time period that closely resemble "fancied up" versions of the hammer poll and other similarly fashioned tomohawks of the 18th century.
One other consideration is one of use. Would the militiamen, ready to dispatch the "bloodthirsty savages", yet also ready for a campaign of undoubted hardship, have carried an axe or hatched designed as a tool or designed as a weapon?
GMC
Post-Note-
Two tomahawk/hatchet heads post-dating 1832-http://collections.ic.gc.ca/hbc/catex6b1.htm
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Post by Greg Carter on Oct 31, 2002 20:54:20 GMT -5
Here is one comment on the use of tomahawks by the whites I could find from the War of 1812-
"So overpowering and awful is the solemn gloom of an American forest, that to an European, under ordinary circumstances, the effect is a strange sensation of loneliness and inability to move in any direction without being immediately bewildered; . . . it is no reflection upon the high character of our troops to observe, . . . they are neither calculated by their habits nor discipline to contend with the riflemen of Kentucky. . . . If the mode of warfare of the Indians was ferocious, that of the enemy with whom we had to contend was equally so. Every man who has served in that country can attest the fact, that the Kentuckians invariably carry the tomahawk and scalping knife into action, and are dexterous in using them."
The important part being the ending statement-
"Every man who has served in that country can attest the fact, that the Kentuckians invariably carry the tomahawk and scalping knife into action, and are dexterous in using them."
GMC
Source- James Buchanan, "Sketches of the History, Manners and Customs of North American Indians," The London Quarterly Review 61(Dec. 1824): 102-03.
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Post by Robert Braun on Nov 4, 2002 21:36:03 GMT -5
My questions regarding the so-called "Fort Meigs ax" has paid off.
Our good friend and expert blacksmith Jim Patton reported that he contacted Fort Meigs regarding archaeology that supports the small "Fort Meigs" ax offered by almost everyone with a website and a claim to the reenactor "trade."
Jim stated that the curator of Fort Meigs indicated that they found large ax heads, similar to the shape seen on the modern interpretation. Unfortunately they found nothing whatever in the small size seen on vendor catalog pages. This means that the label "Fort Meigs ax" is without apparent foundation.
However I HAVE found provenance for this ax that is tied to the War of 1812 and the later Fur Trade. It was apparently termed a "Kentucky ax" and probably had other names as well.
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Post by Greg Carter on Nov 5, 2002 0:38:54 GMT -5
Bob,
I take it then that we are back where we started? or not? Provenance for both at least up to 1812 or so. Now what?
GMC
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Chris Gordy
Junior Member
"Can I hold the gun to the side? It looks so cool."
Posts: 89
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Post by Chris Gordy on Nov 5, 2002 14:10:28 GMT -5
Another person to talk with on this matter would be Charlie Keller. His blacksmith shop is in Newton, Illinois and he will be in Galena this week for the MOMCC conference. If anyone would like his contact number then send me a message and I'll float it to you.
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Post by Greg Carter on Nov 18, 2002 16:13:05 GMT -5
The illustration "Emigration to the West" depicts a man leading his family in a horsedrawn wagon. He is clothed in pantaloons and a dark colored fringed hunting shirt. He wears a slouch hat and clearly is wearing a neck cloth as well. He carries a long rifle and a shot pouch, and his shirt is closed with a belt. Stuck in the belt is what very clearly appears to be an axe, not a tomahawk. I know it is a bit post-1832, but when the artist observed this family is not given. Regardless, it definitely supports the carrying of a belt axe by the settlers coming through the area at the time.
GMC
(Robert Sears, A New and Popular Pictorial Description of the United States, New York, 1848; in the collection of the Newberry Library, Chicago)
(David Buisseret, Historic Illinois from the Air, Chicago, 1991, collection of One Moc, Rockton)
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Post by Robert Braun on Nov 18, 2002 16:48:14 GMT -5
One Moc... do you mean this painting by William Sidney Mount entitled "Daniel Boone leading settlers through the Cumberland Gap"-- Or this one? Entitled "Emigration to the Western County" as an illustration in B. J. Lossing's book Our Country.
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Post by Greg Carter on Nov 19, 2002 0:33:14 GMT -5
I am afraid the answer is "neither", but it is rather almost a cross between the two.
GMC
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Post by Robert Braun on Jan 8, 2003 16:02:57 GMT -5
For more on this matter, and in particular to develop some understanding on whether or not belt tomahawk heads were forged or cast, I am please to pass on the advice of Mr. Mike Breza of the Oshkosh Public Museum:
From the about one dozen pre-1840s tomahawks and smaller belt axes that I have personnel seen I would have to say that they are forged and not cast. The method of casting steel prior to 1840 would have been quite difficult. Steel and casting was not unknown. To point out one example of the ability to cheaply cast steel here in the USA would be railroad rails. Once they could cast that item cheaply enough from steel then you see railroads take off here. Same thing with plows and other much need implements. That would include axes and the like.
Several tomahawks from the Fort St. Joseph area in Michigan clearly showed the weld broken where it wrapped around the eye of the handle. Also one or two had the steel bit, that was inserted by the blacksmith, missing or partly missing. This means hand work at the forge.
I have notice that most of the broadaxes we have in this museum appear to be cast. The date of these would be late 1800s.
Early 1800s axes and tomahawks in Wisconsin could have come from two different markets. St. Louis to the south and through Detroit from the East. I understand that Detroit would be shipping finished goods from eastern cities such as Boston or New York. St. Louis got the goods from where? Up the Mississippi from ?? But anyway the point is that finished goods came into this region from larger supply houses located in larger American cities. I am sure the records for these shipments or suppliers are resting somewhere.
So the cast steel belt axes that are easy to make and sell currently do not have the correct look due to lack of hammer marks. Even if the smith had used a trip hammer he would still would have had to weld the eye shut and insert and weld the steel bit into place.
In addition to being forged, the overwealming majority of belt axe head seen by me of pre-1840 provenance have a straight top edge, as opposed to a flared edge seen on most reproductions offered by vendors today.
Our thanks to Mr. Breza for his professional opinion on this topic!
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Post by Greg Carter on Feb 9, 2003 14:54:58 GMT -5
Bob,
I think I have found a reference to the use of tomahawks by the Illinois Militia, but not the MT Militia. I will look it up again and post tomorrow.
GMC
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Post by Greg Carter on Feb 10, 2003 17:31:19 GMT -5
This caption is of an incident which occurred near the fort that was built to protect the settlers near present-day Lockport.
"Runyon, wishing to put the courage and watchfulness of its inmates to the proof, disguised himself as an indian, and with his rifle and tomahawk, approached at a stealthy step. He very closely avoided harm as the occupants were about to fire on him when his wife recognized his face."
The caption above is from The Illustrated History of Will County, by George Woodruff, William Perrin and Henry Hall, Published by William LeBaron & Company, Chicago, 1878.
GMC
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Post by Greg Carter on Jan 30, 2004 23:51:44 GMT -5
Turning to Ellen Whitney for advice, I found the following different pieces noted in the "Lost Property" section of her book on Illinois Volunteers:
P. 256, Captain David B. Russell's note states - "lost one axe"
P. 262, Corporal William Fleming's note states - "Tomahaw lost"
P. 267, Private James Arnold's note states- "U.S. Camp Axe lost"
Private Calvin H. Palmore (P.267 also)- "U.S. Hatchet lost"
Private Thomas Hall (P.267 also)- "Camp Axe lost"
Private John Paisley (P.267 also)- "U.S. Camp Axe"
P. 280, Captain John Onstott- "One Camp Hatchet"
P.293, Private Josiah B. Denning- "Lost Tomahaw in Battle"
The different names would seem to indicate a distinct difference in these blades.
GMC
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Post by richw on Apr 5, 2005 12:04:04 GMT -5
FWIW, I have an original tomahawk that came off a farm near Mt. Horeb. I can't say how it got to Mt. Horeb, but it does look just like the common repro forged tomahawk: folded iron with a forged-in piece of steel. Compare with Jas. Towsends's TH-54 Mine is just a little more beat up and rusty, and has a rounded knob on the end of the handle. OK, really beat up and rusty. It is probably 1763-1815+ (British period). P.S. in order to use a painting as a source, you need to look at a large volume of that artist's work, to judge how well he/she depicts objects in general. Some have very poor details (like Catlin), while others are extremely accurate.
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