AMERICAN GUNS VS INDIAN GUNS

[Larry Koschkee]

Last part of May and early part of June of 1832 160 Indian warriors made up of Menomonie, Winnebago and Sioux were gathered at Prairie du Chien itching to go to war against the Sac and Fox. Their Indian Agent, Joseph Street wrote to General Henry Atkinson describing the process of procuring firearms for them.

They are delighted at the permission to go to war and have been dancing nearly all the time since their arrival... I find many Indians without guns, and the arms sent to Galena and Dodgeville leaves this post without ny which they could spare. And Indians can do nothing they say with an American Gun, it is too heavy for them. Believing that you would find some difficulty in getting Indian Guns and Rifles, I have procured and furnished them with the necessary arms and ammuniton at this place, which I hope may meet your approbation... The guns have been purchased on my individual responsibility, the owners waiting to see if the money will be paid by the Government.

Source: Whitney's BHW, pp 535 - 537 Letter from Joseph M. Street to Henry Atkinson, from U.S. Indian Agency at Prairie du Chien, June 6th, 1832

A lot of questions come to mind from this letter, but the most interesting to me is what is an American Gun, what is a Indian Gun?

Comments please....

[Robert Braun]

I would suggest that the so-called "Indain Gun" is most likely the Northwest Trade Gun, and weapons like or similar to this gun.

See www.northstarwest.com/nwtg.html

There is evidence of the use of these guns in the Mineral District--- specifically a serpentine estucheon plate distinctive to the NWTG fished from the Pecatonica River in the 1970s not far from the presumptive site of the Spafford's Field massacre. Tom Fey reported on this find in a local newspaper article not long after the discovery.

As for the "American Gun" mentioned by Street, my guess would be-- based on the references to "the arms sent to Galena and Dodgeville"-- that Street was referring to what his contemporaries called "the U. S. Musket." This was the standard arm of the Regular and militia forces: a flint-lock, muzzle-loading, smoothbore in .69 cal., which mounted an angular bayonet.

By the time of Street's June 6 letter, steamer Java had dropped off some 350 stand of arms at Galena. Of these, 195 U. S. muskets were delivered by wagon to Fort Jackson at Mineral Point. It is my opinion that these muskets were probably older Pattern of 1795 Muskets, and not the newer Pattern of 1816 Muskets.

[Larry Koschkee]

Bob,

The website you listed for the Northwest Trade Gun did not indicate the weight of the weapon. As mentioned in this thread, weight of the "American Gun" was the complaint by the Indians. Would you have a sense for the difference in weapon weights?

Perhaps the "Indian Gun" was considered light enough to carry two on one's person, one strapped across the back and one at ready position like in aDaniel Day-Lewis - "Last of the Mohicans" scene... Eh Bob?

[Robert Braun]

Having handled an orginal "Barnett" NWTG and several Pattern of 1816 original muskets, I can tell you that as a rule, the NWTG was significantly lighter in weight than the P. of 1816 U. S. Musket.

While the construction of U. S. Muskets was reasonably standardized, the NWTGs were available in a variety of calibers, barrel lengths, etc.-- all of which would have some bearing on the weight of the finished piece.

That being said, it sounds like we are making the assumption that, based on Street's observations, the Kickapoo war-party was armed with NWTGs. This is certainly possible... although I agree with your assertion in another thread that we simply don't know the extent to which the war-party was armed.

I won't rule out a Kickapoo or two carrying two weapons, perhaps slinging one from a captive cord over his shoulders. I just have trouble squaring the movie Daniel Day-Lewis portrayal with Kickapoo braves who had to deal with the additional weight (when Street indicated weapon weight was a significant issue to native people) and perhaps a disparity of ammunition calibers that precluded reloading.

On the other hand, I concede that a hotly pursued war-party might take every advantage that came its way...

I have a better time envisioning wepons seized at Spafford's Field or from Henry Apfel being handed out to war-party members who had none, or perhaps to those in order to upgraded their armament to a better gun.

Great discussion!


Bob.