The Hall Sisters Spared.

[Chris]

Atkinson sent the dispatch on the 27th to Gratiot, the day before the Winnebago obtained the sisters. Even if Gratiot would have received the dispatch on the 27th how could he have met with the Winnebago and the Winnebago in turn go to the Sac camp and negotiate for the sister's release. It appears something is missing here... Perhaps someone besides Atkinson took the intiative to sue for the sisters release so the wheels were already in motion before Atkinson got involved. Maybe a guardian angel...

I think the Winnebagos were motivated to ransom the girls on their own initiative, in order to reduce further hostilities. Again, see Diedrich's biography of Whirling Thunder. It presents an excellent personality profile.

[Larry Koschkee]

Chris,

With all due respect I disagree with your statement I think the Winnebagos were motivated to ransom the girls on their own initiative, in order to reduce further hostilities...

At the time of the Hall Sister's rescue, many Wisconsin and Rock River Winnebagoes were non-committed or "sitting on the fence" awaiting for events too unfold. It was a time in which these Winnebagoes could easily have been drawn into the fracas coming down on the side of Black Hawk and followers.

My extensive research of the question; Who initiated or facilitated the Hall Sisters rescue? has lead me to an unlikely individual... Catherine Myott, a Winnebago metis employed by Sub-Agent Henry Gratiot as a government interpreter. Indeed, she was truly a "guardian angel" and moreover played a major part in saving the lives of others during the BHW.

Catherine Myott was the daughter of a well respected Prairie du Chien Indian Agent, Nicholas Boilvin and she carried a lot of weight in the Rock/Wisconsin River Winnebago community.

In addition, she had great influence in preventing bloodshed during the 1827 Winnebago War, essentially putting out fires caused by Col Henry Dodge's recklessness.

Respectively,

Larry Koschkee

[Robert Braun]

Larry said:

In addition, she had great influence in preventing bloodshed during the 1827 Winnebago War, essentially putting out fires caused by Col Henry Dodge's recklessness.

Respectively,

Larry Koschkee

Such as...??

Correspondence I have read -- Dodge's letters to the Galena "Committee of Safety" and others including General Atkinson-- do not denote "recklessness," as I define the word.

Regards, Bob.

[Larry Koschkee]

Should we begin a debate on whether Dodge's actions in 1827 where "recklessness" or not, at last count this would be perhaps at least the third time the issue was analyzed?

Would it not be prudent for us to simply agree that we disagree on this subject? Should board readers want additional information... they can be directed to threads with titles: "An Oneida Indian in Dodge's Company" and Dodge, "The Old Roman."

Regards,

Larry K

[Chris]

I totally agree with you that there was a Ho-Chunk faction that was dedicated to preventing further bloodshed. It was certainly a wise move on the part of all those who participated in the ransom of the girls.

The time was passed for war, and BlackHawk's backing out at the time of Tecumseh's alliance, not understanding the conditions in the East that sparked the action, probably was an important factor in that failure. Hie "repentance", finally understanding why, was just too late.

[HallSon]

Larry, I now understand the Catherine Myott question. I was hoping a preacher might enter this mystery but a determined educated lady in that time period makes me feel even better. My purely speculative theory that MAJ Reddick Horn could have been the Guardian Angel is something I'll continue to check. A bit of trivia for the board, William Hall the father of Sylvia and Rachel was with the Kentucky mounted volunteers at the battle of Thames where Tecumseh perished.

Marty

[Chris]

Very interesting bit of trivia!! No wonder it worked to defuse the situation. I wonder if Catherine Myott, Whirling Thunder, and White Crow and other Indians who participated in the rescue were aware of that? Certainly people should not be held responsible for what their ancestors did.

BTW, I also have speculated that both Whirling Thunder and White Crow were metis. It was very common in that area. My own definition of "metis" is people who are culturally more Indian than they look, as a result of multiple-generation mixing.

[HallSon]

I'd guess Ms Myott spoke French as well...seriously. Wordly, involved, compassionate vice educated would be a better description. Amazing how seemingly unimportant people of that time period rise to their proper place with study and research. Rachel, Sylvia and John Wesley Hall had a family reunion in Nebraska about 30 years later and Sylvia's recollection mentioned an Indian woman housed in their tent during their captivity. I wonder?

Marty

[Chris]

You wonder if a third woman held captive, an Indian woman not considered important by the historians of that time, could have been another motivation for the rescue? Very interesting question.

[Robert Braun]

Larry said:

Should we begin a debate on whether Dodge's actions in 1827 where "recklessness" or not, at last count this would be perhaps at least the third time the issue was analyzed?

Would it not be prudent for us to simply agree that we disagree on this subject? Should board readers want additional information... they can be directed to threads with titles: "An Oneida Indian in Dodge's Company" and Dodge, "The Old Roman."

Regards,

Larry K

No... not at all. I believe your use of the term "reckless" was framed in the context of the 1827 Winnebago War, as that was the apparent direction of the thread. Our debate has raged over allegations and interpretations of Dodge's actions AFTER that unpleasantness...

My question stands... "such as?"

Regards, Bob.

[Larry Koschkee]

Dodge's "reckless" actions in the 1827 "Winnebago Fuss" and Catherine Myott's and others efforts too keep a lid on things on the frontier are to be eventually published...

Best regards,

Larry K

[Robert Braun]

I am interested in returning to the original question... WHY were the Hall sisters spared?

Examination of some recent publications indicate the presence of Simon Girty's son in the Illinois country, and a desire to whip up old anamosities among the Pottawattomie. Clearly, the actions of the damming of the creek and other "insults" only added to indignation of local Indian people.

Any other evidence for the Girty connection?

If, as some authors allege, Girty was out to make a name for himself in the image of his father, my readings thus far indicates that Indian Creek was his sole large-scale attempt. In his "war" on women and babies, why did the killing stop short of the Hall sisters?

Regards, Bob.

[Chris]

If someone as despicable as a Girty was involved, maybe they were intended to be sold into prostitution. Could have made quite a mint off of them.

[Chris]

And this speculation sets off a whole new set of questions.

Perry Armstrong (old book thread under general discussion) grew up among BlackHawk's people, and he did not see them as warlike as presented in the history books. He believed that there was a connection between the BlackHawk war and the Mormons. If, indeed, Girty's river pirates were adding to the hostility between Indian and settler groups, then the Mormon contention that the Mormons of Nauvoo and area had been invaded by river pirates makes sense. What they did to Keokuk's band is reprehensible.

[Robert Braun]

Chris said:

And this speculation sets off a whole new set of questions.

Perry Armstrong (old book thread under general discussion) grew up among BlackHawk's people, and he did not see them as warlike as presented in the history books. He believed that there was a connection between the BlackHawk war and the Mormons. If, indeed, Girty's river pirates were adding to the hostility between Indian and settler groups, then the Mormon contention that the Mormons of Nauvoo and area had been invaded by river pirates makes sense. What they did to Keokuk's band is reprehensible.

Ummm... Chris.... as a point of interest, the Mormons did not enter Adams County, Illinois until the winter of 1838-9, more than six years after the end of Black Hawk's War.

Bob.