Chris
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Post by Chris on Apr 20, 2004 16:08:07 GMT -5
Right. That is my point. The theory is that Girty's river pirates were fomenting hostilities during the Blackhawk War, and that the same Girty's river pirates invaded the Mormons. They simply moved downriver. When the Mormons were kicked out of Missouri, they were a small group practicing an offbeat religion, not deserving of any hostilities. When they moved into HANCOCK county (one county north of Adams county) around 1838 "they were invaded by river pirates". And thus Keokuk's band had some really devastating problems, but the Mormons were blamed excessively. Possibly the same group of people who were previously inciting things up north? The style of operations was similar in both situations, setting Indians and "whites" against each other, and profiting in the middle of the hostilities. OK. Here goes: www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/IL/sign1840.html |
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Post by Greg Carter on Jul 14, 2004 12:47:06 GMT -5
I do not believe that Girty's Pottowotomi band from 1832 was involved in this Mormon affair as you suggest. The Pottowotomis accused of murder at Indian Creek were tried and acquitted in 1833, suggesting that they stuck around the area.
Mike Girty, on the other hand, may certainly have left and recruited another band of followers. River Pirates strikes me as a name attributable to white people rather than Indians.
GMC
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2004 7:46:43 GMT -5
It is highly speculative on my part to say that there was a connection. Any indications about it are in
A Sorrow in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh
by Allan W. Eckert
If they were in the Rock River area in 1832, then they had to pass by/through Nauvoo in order to get to where some of their descendents got, which wasn't Utah.
However, the membership of this board is avoidant of discussing the later mess. I respect that, because it is a very controversial issue, and you do not want this board to become a focus of controversy.
To me the term river pirates would apply to a river-based band of outlaws of any race, including Indians who had been banned from their tribes for serious criminal acts, and half-breed children of white outlaws.
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Post by Robert Braun on Jul 15, 2004 15:00:25 GMT -5
Dodge's "reckless" actions in the 1827 "Winnebago Fuss" and Catherine Myott's and others efforts too keep a lid on things on the frontier are to be eventually published... Best regards, Larry K Larry.. any update on the publishing of your findings? I for one would be most interested, as my knowledge of the 1827 "war" is rather limited. Kind regards... Bob. |
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Post by Larry Koschkee on Jul 16, 2004 8:03:14 GMT -5
Thank you for your inquiry. Well what can I say other than the process is progressing, but not with out a few twist and turns. Spent a week and one-half this summer in the cities of Ottawa and Montreal following pertinent historical and genealogical leads.
Larry K.
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Post by Robert Braun on Jul 16, 2004 8:36:41 GMT -5
Thanks, Larry. Sounds like you've had an eventful summer thus far! I am told that patience is a virtue... apparently I just need to be a better practitioner!  Bob. |
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Post by HallSon on Jul 16, 2004 12:17:24 GMT -5
Larry, I would be interested as well. Please let us know when published.
Marty S.
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Post by Colleen C Simpson on Mar 12, 2005 11:42:34 GMT -5
Can someone tell me the source of information regarding the two Indians, Comee and Toquamee, who had attempted to "buy" Sylvia and Rachel Hall as brides.
Thank you!
Hello and welcome to the Black Hawk War Discussion Board. We're glad you're here!
Please sign your full, real name to your posts-- it is one of our few rules. You may do ths by either typing your name after each post, or setting up a signature block in your "Profile." If you need help, please conact me.
Again... welcome!
Bob Braun
Moderator.
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Post by gussie on Mar 21, 2005 9:37:31 GMT -5
One source for the potenial "purchase" of the Hall sisters is Scanlan, C.M (1915) Indian Creek Massacre and Sylvia and Rachel hall as Indian Captives. p23.
Don Prentiss (gussie)
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Post by Colleen C Simpson on Mar 21, 2005 10:45:11 GMT -5
Forgive me Bob, I didn't catch that requirement. I have corrected the problem immediately.
Thank you Don for supplying that source. I will see if the local library has that on hand.
Why are the most recent posts on the last page of this board? It seems like it should be reveresed. (Just my opinion.)
Thanks!
Colleen
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Post by Robert Braun on Mar 30, 2005 21:37:36 GMT -5
Hello Colleen, and welcome to the Black Hawk War Discussion Board. Over the past several years, our discussions have taken many twists and turns, just like the Pecatonica River! Feel free to offer comments, insights, questions on other threads within the Board... perhaps we can renew some of those great discussions! We're glad you are here! Bob Braun Moderator. |
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Post by Colleen C Simpson on May 14, 2005 6:38:01 GMT -5
Hello everyone!
I have just visited the Lasalle County Museum this past weekend and picked up a little booklet by Harriet L. Homan about the Indian Creek Massacre. It is very little, only 19 pages, and I don't believe she has listed all her sources. Her booklet focuses on how this horrible episode came about, and she focuses on Mike Girty as one of the main sources of inspirations for the attack. She also seems to imply that the two Indians that tried to purchase the girls saved them from death.
In her version, she says that the hall family settled on a piece of land that was the Indian Chiefs, Meomuse, Sugar Camp. The indian children of Meomuse (including Como & Kewassee) played with the white children at various gatherings. Apparently it was at these gatherings that Como & Kewassee became enamored with Rachel and Sylvia and attempted to purchase them as brides.
Later, at the Massacre, Homan suggests that Como & Kewassee saved the girls from death because of their interests in the girls.
Now the author, Scanlan, refers to these two Indians as Co-mee and To-qua-mee. I'm going to look at other sources to confirm their true names.
At the end of Scanlan's book, he mentions the trial of Co-mee & To-qua-mee. Rachel and Sylvia were the key witnesses and could not positively identify either of the Indians so they were acquitted.
Now I'm wondering if the girls spared these two Indians because they did initially save their lives and if maybe there was some sort of bond between the four of them. A bond created by friendship or maybe just simple gestures of kindness. If Homan was correct in the fact that they played together at the Sugar Camp...maybe they might have been friends.
If these two Indians saved their lives and pulled them out of the Davis settlement, I would think the two girls would be able to identify them fairly easily. Unless they were blindfolded, which has not been mentioned.
What would be your opinions on this information?
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Post by HallSon on Jun 4, 2005 10:23:23 GMT -5
It is my understanding that when brought to trial the defendants were craftily covered with paint on their faces and could not be positively identified. I know both Sylvia and Rachel were brought up as devout methodists and would never speak of such a thing publicly. Perhaps quietly between themselves or their close friends, but never publicly. I've read articles where Sylvia (Hall) Horn was the subject of considerable folklore amongst the towns people of Peru, Nebraska where she is buried along side her husband William Horn son of Reddick Horn. Most of the Horn and Hall families settled in Nebraska's southeast corner upon opening in the 50's.
Marty
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Post by HallSon on Jun 4, 2005 17:35:08 GMT -5
Greg, What was Shaubena announcing on his Paul Revere ride? Was it that Black Hawk would soon attack or that his tribe was upset about Davis's dam and aggressive actions at Indian Creek?
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Post by HallSon on Jun 7, 2005 8:28:19 GMT -5
Following is an excerpt from the Revolutionary War Application of Edward H. Hall the Father of William Hall killed at the Indian Creek Massacre. Warren Hooper the Court Clerk signing this document mentioned the Indian Creek tragedy as well as laying blame on the so called savages under Black Hawk. Warren Hooper had also prepared the document granting 80 acres on the canal to William Munson and Rachel (Hall) a few months earlier in May of 1834. At what point in history after 20 May 1832 was it determined that the Indian Creek Massacre had little or nothing to do with Black Hawk and his warriors? Excerpt from application: "and that he moved from there to the county of Putnam and State of Illinois , in which his son, his son's wife and one child were inhumanly mafsacred by the savages under Black Hawk, on Indian Creek, Lasalle County, Illinois from which three of his grand sons escaped and his two grand daughters Rachel and Sylvia Hall were captured and carried away by the Indians as prisoners. That during his late residence in Pike County Indiana about three years ago last December he had the misfortune to have his house burnt, and all his papers destroyed by which he could have been much more particular in the narration he has given of his service as a soldier of the revolution.
Witnesses to this long application (interrogation) were Robert Garton (Clergyman), John Strawn (Col), Warren Hooper, (Court Clerk) Richard M. Young (Judge) and Elias Thompson his neighbor. Outside of application signed by John M. Robinson US. Interesting people in the early history of Illionois.
Marty S.
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