what happened at bad axe?

[Kevin]

hey guys, I just watched a documentary TV about black down, i feel really bad for him if what is told in the program is true.

the point below is all based on the program:
1. It's not a war at all, it's a masseca, slaughter, can't image militia can stab 300 old man, woman and children(includes infants) to death. that's sad.
2. Militia even Shoot at indians who is going to negotiate and then surrender.
3. Coax indian to sign treaty when they are drunk.

In conclusion, that's a sad story, black hawk should fight to death instead surrendering himself and live to 70 years, how can he live all his years with all those sad things. This kind of thing seems can't be avoid at that time, 'smart' people felt like they should take more nno matter how, but today, if human being had been improving itself, we should face the fact directly.

[Mike Thorson]

Was this documentary made and shown in Canada?

[Robert Braun]

Kevin said:

the point below is all based on the program:
1. It's not a war at all, it's a masseca, slaughter, can't image militia can stab 300 old man, woman and children(includes infants) to death. that's sad.
2. Militia even Shoot at indians who is going to negotiate and then surrender.
3. Coax indian to sign treaty when they are drunk.

In conclusion, that's a sad story, black hawk should fight to death instead surrendering himself and live to 70 years, how can he live all his years with all those sad things. This kind of thing seems can't be avoid at that time, 'smart' people felt like they should take more nno matter how, but today, if human being had been improving itself, we should face the fact directly.

Well, Kevin... I don't think anyone will argue that the BHW wasn't a tragic, sometimes horrible conflict. That being said, it's a shame that some media types feel it necessary to accentuate the already contentious issues with factual errors and mythology. Regarding your quotations from the production:

1. Your comments appear to be centered on a condensation of the entire fifteen week war into the tragic culmination of the "Battle of the Mississippi" (Bad Ax) on August 2, 1832. Many capsule histories you'll find on the web use this technique... 1. mention BH's move across the Miss. in April, 2. swing into the thwarting of BH's so-called "surrender" at what became Stillman's Run, then 3. run directly to the inevitable "Bad Ax Massacre." This technique, which engenders an emotional rather than an intellectual response, tends to maximize the depredations of the Militia and Regulars, while minimizing depredations committed by natives.

I agree with you--- I can't imagine the militia (as you say) stabbing 300 'old man, woman and children(includes infants) to death' either. That's because it didn't happen... to the degree you quoted. By all accounts, the fatalities in the "British Band" on August 2 numbers about 150. Further, there has never been a genuine attempt to analyze the survivor and participant accounts to gain a better appreciation for the scope of the depredations. Now I am not minimizing the horror and brutality necessary to kill women and children. What I am saying is that the MAGNITUDE to which the story has been told has never been truly assessed in an authoritative way. Even Black Hawk, in his own autobiography, stated that "some women" were killed. Not "lots," or "many," or "nearly all." The word given is "some." Surely he would have been told accurately the numbers of his followers killed on the banks of the Mississippi, would he not?

2. Black Hawk's own autobiography identifies only one legitimate surrender attempt by himself... on August 1 before the makeshift gunboat "Warrior." To take BH's account, alone and unchallenged, one would think that Captain Throckmorton blazed away without regard for the situation. This mythology dramamtically slips away when the entirety of the eyewitness accounts are assembled and compared. The situation was by no means clear-cut: there were at least TWO surrender flags; there were problems and issues with the interpreter and interpretation of language; and more than one eyewitnessed saw warriors readying their weapons just inside the woodline, and behind a crowd of unarmed people on the riverbank. Certainly, either knowingly or unknowingly, members of the BB readying their weapons cast a shadow over the surrender attempt. Of course, the key to the issue is the space of time between the intitial cannon discharge, and the first return fire of the BB. The less the interval, the more supportive of Throckmorton's (and other's) suspicions that the white flags MAY be a ruse.

3. I am presuming you are discussing the issue of Quashquame and the so-called "Treaty of 1804." Truth be told, Quashquame was not a very popular guy when he returned home and people found out what had happened at the council. Through the years, writers have latched onto one of his stories, that Quashquame was made drunk before signing the treaty. Unfortunately, in an attempt to either save face or reduce the blame, old Quashquame changed his story so many times that it is hard to know what really did happened. Did the program you saw mention this fact?

Finally, I need to ask you to clarify the point you were trying to make in the last sentence of your note. I really can't follow what you were trying to say.

Bob.

[BattleWarrior]

Im doing a school project and I was wondering were I can find vital information for just the black hawk war from a blackhawks point of view if you have any E-mail it to me at [e-mail]. Thanks for reading this. I NEED the info. before the 18th.

[Robert Braun]

BattleWarrior said:

Im doing a school project and I was wondering were I can find vital information for just the black hawk war from a blackhawks point of view if you have any E-mail it to me at [e-mail]. Thanks for reading this. I NEED the info. before the 18th.

Hello BattleWarrior and welcome to the Black Hawk War Message Board!

Thanks for signing in. From now on, Please sign your postings using your real name.

Presuming you are looking for Black Hawk's Autobiography.. it is available online and at most good libraryies. You can also order it on-line, although the liklihood is strong you wont be able to take delivery on it by the 18th.

BH's writing is the only full account from the native perspective. What sort of VITAL inforation do you seek?

Regards,

Bob Braun
Moderator.