Black Hawk sites today

[johnvan]

Greetings all! I'm new to the message board and wanted to say hello, and ask a few questions. I just traveled Black Hawk's route through Wisconsin again. The last time was in the late 1990s, so there were a lot of differences!

One question... Is the old cement marker on private property still up near Wisconsin Heights? I looked but couldn't see it, and wasn't sure if that was a result of the heavy summer undergrowth or if it had been taken down...

The site was really interesting, and I was very glad that I had taken the old map and the pics from Bob Braun's "virtual tour" to help out. The thing that struck me most about the location was at what close quarters they would've been firing at each other. It was also a bit strange to hear the gun shots going off from the local gun club while we walked the grounds...

Second question, if I may... Does anyone know what the vegetation would have been like during the 1830s in southern Wisconsin? Would the flatter, drier areas have been prairie or still wooded? Despite all the cornfields, I was trying to get a handle on what it would have been like for Black Hawk to guide his people through these areas. It's really unbelievable to think that he moved that many people, in the shape they were in, through some of that terrain.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any answers, thoughts, etc.

Best to all,
John Van

[Robert Braun]

Hello, John and welcome to the Dicussion Board!

Regarding your questions...

1. The cement marker should still be there.. as I am unaware of any plans by the DNR to relocate it (budgets being what they are, you see!) From the parking area, there is a gravel trail that leads to the battle site. Another trail runs north, and roughly parallel to the modern highway. Following this trail to its terminus will lead you directly to the monument. (Note: be sure you note the callous vandalism inflicted on this monument by a shotgun blast. This vandalism has occured within the last year.)

2. Tradition holds that the vegetation in the vicinity of Wisconsin Heights was "oak savannah." I have been informed that this meant a prarie grassland dotted with burr oak-- far more open than the area is today. Valiant efforts by the DNR to restore the hisotric vistas have met with the ubiquitous budget crunch... and the resulting inability to maintain the momentum needed to preserve the vistas once they are restored.

Regarding specific on the battlefield flora, I think it best if I defer to Larry Koschkee on this board.

I am most flattered that my virtual tour was useful in your actual tour of Wisconsin Heights!

Regards,

Bob Braun
Moderator.

[Larry Koschkee]

John Van,

Mr. Braun is correct in stating the terrain of the battle ground was essentially White and Bur oak savanna with tall marsh grasses in the "Spy Ravine." The U.S. General Land Office Surveyor field notes described the terrain along the closest section line to be: Land hilly and Stony 3rd rate timber oak This eastern boundary section line of Section 24 came within 3 chains or 198 feet of the battle ground.

The modern standards to denote a prairie, savanna or woods is based off the first witness tree distance from section or 1/4 section markers.

Prairie (greater-than 200 feet)
Savanna (53 - 200 feet)
Woods (less-than 53 feet)

John T. Curtis' book The Vegetation of Wisconsin, 1959 has a map insert depicting major plant communities of Wisconsin that shows the vicinity of Wisconsin Heights to be "Oak Savanna"

Another map published by the University of Wisconsin - Extension, Geological and Naural History Survey draws the same conclusion.

Another very interesting map is a computer generated one done in 2001 by the Department of Forest Ecology and Management - University of Wisconsin - Madison. This is very illuminating.

Other vegetation? Plants commonly found in a "tall-grass prairie." I have walked the site with other members of The Prairie Enthusiasts who are more astute in plant identification than I. They all concluded their is sufficient evidence of a prairie remnant.

A point directed at Mr. Braun. Listen Mister, do not sell yourself short on the value of your battle site virtual tour. I and other acquaintances have benefited immenselyy from it. (I was even able to identify Wild Garlic Mustard plants in it )

Larry K

[Cliff Krainik]

Thank you for all the wonderful information, Larry.

You done good.

Cliff

[Robert Braun]

Larry said:

A point directed at Mr. Braun. Listen Mister, do not sell yourself short on the value of your battle site virtual tour. I and other acquaintances have benefited immenselyy from it. (I was even able to identify Wild Garlic Mustard plants in it )

Larry K

Gosh! My apologies all 'round!

I know from site statistics that folks are accessing the virtual tour... some 660 since I put it up, and an interesting flurry of hits in July of this year.

However, I only rarely hear feedback on what folks actually THINK about the "virtual tour" and if, in fact, this and the Pecatonica tour are useful. Again... I am most flattered that this material has found a useful place in the research if BHW site visitors and enthusiasts!

Regards... Bob.

[johnvan]

Thanks for all the great information, gents!

Bob, I saw that trail and didn't take it! Whoops!!! I was guessing that the marker was on the southside of the site. Guess it has been a while since I was there...either that or my brain is getting older a lot faster than I care to admit! ;-) But your site definitely helped!

Larry, thanks for the detailed vegetation info. I really appreciate that, too! :-)

I took a number of photos from different locations on the route and will try to put those up on a web page in the near future. Will end up doing a travel article or two based on this trip, too.

Here's a question for others who have visited these sites... I love traveling to historical locations and at a number of these, no matter how long ago the event occurred, it seems like you can really get a feel for what it must have been like there. I really struggled with that on the Blackhawk sites, though. For some reason, I had a very hard time picturing these events in the current locations. Perhaps the best reaction I had was at Wisconsin Heights, but did anyone else have the same (or opposite) reaction?

Thanks again!

John

[Robert Braun]

John.. you're right... sometimes it is very hard for we modern people to visualize the action at battle sites. Overt monumentaton (or the lack of interpretive markers), modern intrusions, poorly written guides (or no guides at all) and a general lack of a "frame of reference" for modern people all conspire to make a visualization difficult.

For me, Wisconsin Heights is a much easier battle site to visualize-- primarily because the good work of interested local people and key DNR rangers resulted in an almost pristine battle ground, generally free from modern intrusions. The ground does not have the expanse of say a Gettysburg or Little Big Horn, nor a large time frame and lots of troops like Saratoga or Vicksburg. We are most fortunate to have artistic tableaux rendered by artist Michael Thorson set at strategic sites on the ground. However, the site is hampered by a complete lack of an interpretive guide, and a means to understand the troop movements, native and militia positions, and the flow of the ensuing action.

I would be happy to provide you with a tour of the WH site in the future, should you find yourself in the area.

Regards, Bob.

[Greg Carter]

I had trouble visualizing Pecatonica the first time I was there, primarily because of the flat ground and second because of the camping renovations.

GMC

[DJ Palama]

Are any of the other battle sites 'well mantianed?"
-DJ

[Robert Braun]

dj said:

Are any of the other battle sites 'well mantianed?"
-DJ

Well, DJ there are essentially three batttle sites in Wisconsin: Bloody Lake, Wisconsin Heights, and the battle site near the Mississippi (known today as "Bad Axe.")

1. Bloody Lake is well-preserved, within the confines of Blackhawk Park just north of Woodford, WI. We can thank numerous local sportsmen and women, and "black powder" enthusiasts for their personal devotion, service, and treasure in maintaining the park;

2. WH you already know about;

3. The so-called 'Bad Axe" battle site was actually spread out over a wide area. The area around "Battle Hollow" has seen only modest construction over the years, and is essentially unchanges since Bill Starke and friends went through the area in the late 1970s-1980 for their book Along the Black Hawk Trail. Other areas germane to the fight have seen more housing construction of late, particularly "Battle Ridge." The area of the shoreline, where much of the killing occured-- and the vicinity of "Battle Isle"-- is somewhat preserved by the park-like venue provided by the Army Corps of Engineers, but retains little of its 1830s appearance. One of my recent ambitions is to canoe to Battle Isle (if possible) and look around...

Other battle sites outside of Wisconsin include:

Stillman, IL-- preserved, but unprotected. The grove which sheltered Stillman's volunteers exists as part of private property, and the ridgelines from which BH's warriors obsrved the parley group yet remain. The hill where the "forlorn hope" made its last stand is topped by a large monument.

Apple River Fort-- Preserved as an Illinois state historic site (recent asphalt roads, fencing and dozens of recent tree plantings tend to marr an otherwise excellent site.)

Yellow River Fight-- Preserved but unprotected on private land.

Kellogg's Grove and St. Vrain Massacre site-- Somewhat preserved, and private property. The nearby monument does not mark the actual site of any of these events-- merely the vicinity.


Regards, Bob.

[DJ Palama]

Hopefully one day, more of the sites will be open to the public's interest.
-DJ

[Robert Braun]

Naturally, having more sites open and viewable to the interested public would be a GREAT thing! I just don't see that happening in the forseeable future. Unfortunately, when it comes to history, "love" don't make the world go 'round; FUNDING makes the world go 'round. And as poor as Wisconsin claims to be for anything other that illegal prescription drug importation and siphoning off highway money into various state department budgets, the funding will have to come from private sources.

That being said, about the best we could hope for is the marking of pertinent BHW sites with historical markers. Again, that reality can and should come from private interested individuals and groups.

Why? Left in the hands of the Wisconsin Historical Society, about the best we could hope for would be a request to "Quick! Take a picture of that historic building or scene! Then we'll have a picture before it gets torn down....or paved over..."

...THEN we can maybe see this image next to other scintillating articles in the WHS Journal, like Polish housing architechture in Milwaukee's Third Ward, or the "History of Margarine."


Best regards,
Bob Braun

[DJ Palama]

Hmm...... History of Margarine, that sounds like that be a good show to put on the History Channel.
-DJ

[Robert Braun]

dj said:

Hmm...... History of Margarine, that sounds like that be a good show to put on the History Channel.
-DJ

Well... be sure you check out "Tech Tuesdays" on the Histoy Channel. I'm sure you'll see a pertinent episode, sanwiched in between the "Big Trucks" and "The History of the Hammer."

BTW-- I wasn't making up the "History of Margerine"-- see www.wisconsinhistory.org/wmh/pdf/autumn01_wmh.pdf "The Oleo Wars" was an ACTUAL Wisconsin Historical Society Journal cover story in 2001. The Journal is like the History Channel in one way: in attempting to be diverse, the productions have strayed so far into the esoteric that they are crashing bores.

I renewed my WHS membership anyway... in hopes of an article on "Wisconsin wheat growing methods in 1859" or a "History of Wisconsin Golf."

Wait... I should stop whining. That last article DID appear in the Summer 2005 Journal issue! Yaaawn.

Best,

Bob

[DJ Palama]

, Okay that's an odd thing to be a cover story.... Anyway, I like the History Channel, but some of the stuff on there is just kind of pointless.... Like the History of the Wheels on Cars....