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Post by Greg Carter on Sept 22, 2004 0:26:14 GMT -5
From the October 2004 edition of Maxim magazine, P. 94
>Worth Watching
THE ALAMO
Release Date: September 28
Before it was pissed on by Ozzy Osbourne, the Alamo played host to a battle that was, by 19th-century standards, an all-star jam. Legendary heroes like Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie fought the overwhelming Mexican army during a bloody 13-day siege, with both sides suffering enormous casualties. This latest movie version received lukewarm response in the theaters, but a standout performance by Billy Bob Thornton- who plays Crockett as a simple man wearied by his own legend- deserves a look.
Extra! The special features dedicate a great deal to the engrossing historical facts behind the legend.
Trivia: A Spanish cavalry unit christened the Alamo after their hometown, Alamo de Parras.
Movie: * * *
Special features: * * * *
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Post by Robert Braun on Sept 22, 2004 15:15:34 GMT -5
From the October 2004 edition of Maxim magazine, P. 94 >Worth Watching
THE ALAMO
Release Date: September 28
Before it was pissed on by Ozzy Osbourne, the Alamo played host to a battle that was, by 19th-century standards, an all-star jam. Legendary heroes like Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie fought the overwhelming Mexican army during a bloody 13-day siege, with both sides suffering enormous casualties. This latest movie version received lukewarm response in the theaters, but a standout performance by Billy Bob Thornton- who plays Crockett as a simple man wearied by his own legend- deserves a look.
Extra! The special features dedicate a great deal to the engrossing historical facts behind the legend.
Trivia: A Spanish cavalry unit christened the Alamo after their hometown, Alamo de Parras.
Movie: * * *
Special features: * * * *Gonzales Greg... what PLANET did the authors of this article "beam down" from? - An all-star jam? Crockett was certainly the most "known" person there. Bowie much less so. That makes the percentage of "all stars" about 1% of the fort's occupants;
- Bloody..? Both sides suffering enormous casualties? Maybe on "Day 13." Prior to that, there were modest soldado casualties, and no Texian casualties of which I am aware.
- Lukewarm response in theatres? I saw it three times, and there was never more than 20 people in the seats for any one showing...weekdays AND weekends. They pulled the movie from many venues after NINE days!
I'll still buy the DVD though... it's a week away! Maybe I'll wait nine days, and they'll drop the price...  |
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Post by Greg Carter on Sept 23, 2004 23:47:05 GMT -5
Bexar,
I will just HAVE to get this edition too. I have almost all the others, so why stop now. My source at Best Buy says they will already be low-priced compared to other DVD's on sale.
The more important thought- where can I get a discount on a black Japanned stainless steel British Rev-War surplus canteen? I've got to top off my outfit for A-169.
GMC
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Post by Greg Carter on Sept 29, 2004 23:39:49 GMT -5
Ok,
bought it. watched it. watched the extras. I figured I might post my observations for discussion without being threatened by the no-discussion gestapo that lurk on other certain sites. So here goes:
1. Bowie's stainless steel 1770's canteen. Need I say more?
2. According the the movie "weapons expert" all Mexican soldados used a Brown Bess carbine, not a musket.
3. Mexican soldados were issued "buck and ball" ammunition.
4. The New Orleans Greys were recruited at the circa-1849 Virginia Military Institute, and trained using Civil War drill. After all, they were "professional military men."
5. Every key staffer in movie production was from.. you guessed it... Texas, except for Patrick Wilson.
6. Despite several references in HIS OWN BOOK on the Alamo siege, military advisor Alan C. Huffines did not remark on the fact that in the movie A.L. Santa Anna never once is seen wearing civilian clothes.
7. Despite repeated and repeated and repeated remarks about getting "it all accurate", nobody seemed to notice that San Jacinto was not fought in mid-afternoon.
8. Jim Bowie's gigantic knife could be used as a cutlass in Pirates of the Carribean II.
9. Last, Maxim's remark about the special features is just a bit overstated.
I still love the movie!
GMC
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Post by Robert Braun on Oct 15, 2004 14:12:06 GMT -5
Yeah... the "extra features" are , as you have pointed out elsewhere, funnier than the movie gaffes.
I LOVE the ultra-fake log buildings, and the fact that every Isaac Millsaps portrayal is rendered by some slack-jawed yokel in the WORST hat in the entire production.
What's up with the quasi-Regular sort-of uniforms for the pre-battle San Jacinto scenes? And how many times does that one artillerist blow on that slow match?
I love the fact that the only consistant character in the movie is played by Mr. Quaid-- whose lack of any facial expression change as "Houston" mirrors Quade's lack of talent as an "actor."
I also like the fact that, despite the clear majority of Southern emigrants to Tejas, the producers show practically no hunting shirts. I guess the Alamo was manned by hair-oiled Easterners....
This being said... I've seen the movie perhaps a dozen times at home. I mean... it's like John Wayne's "Horse Soldiers"-- a guilty pleasure! ;D
Adios... Bob.
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Post by MustangGray on Nov 19, 2004 10:50:38 GMT -5
"I figured I might post my observations for discussion without being threatened by the no-discussion gestapo that lurk on other certain sites."
Greg,
Yeah, it's a good thing those "no-discussion gestapo" guys aren't lurking on this site! So how's your kit coming along for 169? I've seen nearly everyone's pics except yours and was just wondering?
Dios, libertad y Tejas,
Scott McMahon
(aka. Col. W. B. Travis)
Alamo169 Event Coordinator
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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 6, 2004 8:14:48 GMT -5
I figured I might post my observations for discussion without being threatened by the no-discussion gestapo that lurk on other certain sites. Gonzales Greg--- watch this thread...!!! I will shortly post a PERIOD account for the non-wearing of neckcloths, and the original David Crockett's OWN use of so-called "movie lines!" ;D Regards, Bexar Bob. |
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Cliff Krainik
Member
MY HEROES HAVE ALWAYS LIFTED THE TOPKNOTS OF THE LONG KNIVES
Posts: 233
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Post by Cliff Krainik on Dec 9, 2004 12:01:53 GMT -5
I FOUGHT AT THE ALAMO [/img][/center] Cliff Krainik |
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Post by Greg Carter on Dec 11, 2004 4:28:22 GMT -5
That's going to be us in 'bout two months I'd say. (the guy lying on the ground, anyway.)
GMC
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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 13, 2004 11:58:27 GMT -5
I will shortly post a PERIOD account for the non-wearing of neckcloths, and the original David Crockett's OWN use of so-called "movie lines!" Thanks for your patience. Here it is! ==== Non-wearing of neck-clothsI have long stipulated that neck-cloths were common male attire in Jacksonian America, even among the laboring class. I also have advanced the notion that this practice was far less dogmatic than some modern commentators might otherwise prefer. I have cited several extant genre paintings of Mount and Bingham as part of my proof. The following first-person accounts lend additional support to my position-- 1. Referring to "the hunter of the West," British traveller William Oliver noted the following during his adventures in Illinois in late 1841-early 1842: "...His face, tanned by exposure to all weather, is often garnished by a beard, intouched by razor or scissors for many weeks., and his throat, unless the weather is severe, is unfettered by a neckcloth (emphasis added.) 2. Pecatonica battle veteran Charles Bracken wrote of his 1832 Black Hawk War experiences in the 1850s. Just prior to the advance against the Kickapoo war-party, Bracken recalled Dodge's orders to “renew our flints, reprime our guns, un-button our short-collars, and tighten our belts.” Note that there was no mention of neck-cloths-- perhaps inferring that the men were not wearing any to remove before un-buttoning their shirt collars! A Crockett "Alamo" movie line used by Crockett himself?We heard it twice in the recent epic movie "The Alamo." The actor portraying Hackett rehearsed the line "I'm a screamer..." and the actor portraying Crockett alleges that "I'm a screamer" was Crockett's last words before his "execution." We are all familiar with Crockett's attendance at a Washington, D.C. showing of the play "The Lion of the West" in 1833, and the subsequent release of Crockett's autobiography A Narrative of the Life of David Crockett in March, 1834. In Chapter 15 of Crockett's autobiography we find: "I started my tired dogs after and McDaniel pursued them, and I went back to where my other dogs were. I had seen the track of the bear they were after, and I knowed he was a screamer..."
Interestingly enough, John Russle Bartlett's 1848 Dictionary of Americanisms has an entry for "screamer"--
Likely, the word was in common usage in the West. Crockett used it based on his own experience or the the use of the word from the play (I suggest the former, given the context of the usage.) Notice the difference in the use of this word historically, as compared to the literal use of the word "screamer" in 'The Alamo" movie.
=====
Regards, Bob.
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Post by adjutant7inf on Dec 22, 2004 17:13:02 GMT -5
It is nice to find a site where one can discuss the latest Alamo movie without getting called every name in the book!
Kevin R. Young
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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 22, 2004 17:53:16 GMT -5
It is nice to find a site where one can discuss the latest Alamo movie without getting called every name in the book! Kevin R. Young Hello, Mr. Young, and welcome to the Black Hawk War discussion board! Feel free to offer your thoughts on the movie in this "Open Discussion" thread... or start your own thread, if desired. Regards, Bob Braun Moderator. |
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Post by adjutant7inf on Dec 22, 2004 19:00:59 GMT -5
Thanks-it is also nice to be back in Illinois.
Did anyone notice in the film that Travis rides into San Antonio, and then wants to go look at the Alamo. Since he came from San Felipe, he should have actually passed the Alamo on his way in!
There are references to uniforms at San Jacinto on the Texan side, but I don't think they had 1839 forage caps as shown in the film.
The Bowie knife used in the film is based on one that is owned by a Bowie researcher and enthusiast. He took it to a psychic to have it confirmed that it was Bowie's. See Jack Davis' "Three Roads to the Alamo" page 5.
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Post by Robert Braun on Dec 23, 2004 9:05:43 GMT -5
Thanks-it is also nice to be back in Illinois. Did anyone notice in the film that Travis rides into San Antonio, and then wants to go look at the Alamo. Since he came from San Felipe, he should have actually passed the Alamo on his way in! There are references to uniforms at San Jacinto on the Texan side, but I don't think they had 1839 forage caps as shown in the film. The Bowie knife used in the film is based on one that is owned by a Bowie researcher and enthusiast. He took it to a psychic to have it confirmed that it was Bowie's. See Jack Davis' "Three Roads to the Alamo" page 5. Perhpas you can answer a question for me... the maps in Alan Huffine's book really don't give me a map distance, so my question is: "How far was it from the actual (not the movie) church in San Antonio to the actual Alamo mission?" Yeah... the uniforms. I also wondered HOW many times the doof at the cannon (the pre-San Jacinto camp scene) was goign to blow on that slow-match. Some really sterling editing there! "Psychic" eh? Remind me to show you from MY collection the the psychic-confirmed sword George Washington wore at Yorktown; Napoleon's chapeau bras worn at Waterloo; a buffalo robe worn by Black Hawk; the bell from RMS Titanic; and a piece from the Hope Diamond. ;D ...oh yeah. And a piece of the Holy Cross. Jes' kiddin'! While I understand the value some place in psychic investigation, I read some pretty wild assessments of hisotric items and sites lately. "It may be so, but I don't know..." So... the knife appeared in the movie because the psychic said Bowie "owned" it; or Bowie "had it at the Alamo?" Big difference... like the Crockett vest. WOuld you agree? Good obervations on your part! Bob. |
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Post by adjutant7inf on Dec 23, 2004 9:50:50 GMT -5
Before I answer, a statement of sorts. My comments on the recent film are not criticisms on Hardin, Huffiness or Frank Thompson.
It is 800 yards from the Alamo to the San Fernando Church (the center of San Antonio). The river comes much closure (about two city blocks from where the West Wall would be) and "La Villita" is about two long blocks to the south. You had some small homes pretty close to the Alamo as well. I thought the Bejar set was pretty cool, except it just didn't look lived in, but had real problems with the "most accurate Alamo" ever built (church flush with long barracks, shortened compound, werid looking low barracks). If you could combine Alamo Village's Alamo set with the FlopaMoe's
Bejar, you would have a cool set.
In 1984, when they were extending the riverwalk up to Alamo Plaza, I was standing in front of the Moe (Alamo)
when the construction crew tore down the last building in the projects way. When the dust cleared, you could actually see the south tower of San Fernando. It was pretty cool to kind of have the same view that the defenders had for a brief while (the Hyatt Hotel now blocks it).
Yes--Santa Anna should been wearing some civilan clothing. Of course, he also should have been much younger! I also thought the Tejano clothing was interesting--Berlandier, who went through San Antonio in 1828 on a Mexican boundary survey, noted that the folks in San Antonio (like the Seguin's. Navarro's and such) dressed like they were in New Orleans. And I agree on the Texian clothing--more like they were casting "A Christmas Carol" than a garrison who was made up of lots of Southerners. And what was the deal with Crockett never wearing a hat in the cold winter of 1836?
You may be interested to know that Disney filmed a ton of interviews after the movie to make a second disk for the DVD release. Lots of folks who were not on the Disney payroll were interviewed, including myself. When the film died at the box office, they apparently scrapped the plans to do the extend DVD and instead used stuff from their own crew. Funny, but one of the things I was asked to do was describe what it was like for a Mexican soldier to be in the final battle, which I did based on the primary accounts. When I saw the film for the first (and only) time, I remarked to my wife, "Oh great, the battle in the film (as edited) does not match anything I said!"
The owners of the various "original" Bowie knives have gone to war with each other in years past. At a Texas Collectors Gun Show, two of them tried to have each other banned for showing a "fake" knife. Jack Davis actually got threatened with a lawsuit over the mention of the "laying hands on documentation" in his book.
I got a kick out of the Crockett vest and the film's PR about how Billy Bob was going to be wearing a copy of the actual vest--my problem was if Crockett had the vest at the Alamo, then it would not be around today. It is kind of like the Darst knife--if he had it at the Alamo, then...
I had a young serviceman (a Mr. Know It All) come in one day and tell me that the Brown Bess we had on display was not what the Mexican Army used. He had an "original" that he won in a poker game that was used at the Alamo (more pieces of the true cross). After trying to explain what weapons the Mexican Army used, I finally asked him if it had any ID on it. He said yes, the name of the regiment (which should be battalion) was burned into the stock, and that it had a flip open breach. I asked the name on the stock and he said "Batjac"--the name of John Wayne's production company who made The Alamo in 1960 (so it was a trap door Springfield made into a fake flintlock).
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